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Topic: In other news ...
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FearlessF · « **Reply #3304 on:** March 05, 2021, 05:05:32 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on March 05, 2021, 04:55:38 PM

Was he sentenced to a couple of months serving Coffee Klatches?

I think it was a couple months grounded to his room. No TV, radio, or friends. This was the 70s, before gaming and internets

bayareabadger · « **Reply #3305 on:** March 05, 2021, 05:10:00 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on March 05, 2021, 04:59:01 PM

I did not, but the largest streak in the country was at UGA and I was observing.

I know the mob thought somehow they would stop Pence, but I don't think of that as a concrete specific goal with any kind of plan. I suppose it's semantics.

It was a vague notion, we'll march over there and somehow stop Pence. Hang him?

And it absolutely damaged their "cause". Most sensible folks were shocked. I'd bet a lot of the 29,000 were shocked and dismayed.

It seemed a little like the dog that caught the car.

Mob makes it to the capital. Set to stand there. A few hundred start fighting cops. They win. They break in. Many more trail the vanguard.

Like, I'm sure not everyone is gonna do something grotesque. But it takes five people or less to beat a 61-year-old savagely. How many to overwhelm security? Not a lot. And it's not like the hundreds are gonna step in and say "you must stop."

longhorn320 · « **Reply #3306 on:** March 05, 2021, 05:10:40 PM »

so now in the news its being reported that Eric Swalwell has filed suit against Trump and several others in an attempt to hold him responsible for the Jan 6th riot

This will be very interesting

First time Ive ever heard of a sitting US congressman suing a US citizen

Brings up all sorts of legal issues

I really dont think Swalwell has thought this out as it opens the door for all sorts of discovery
not only on the former Presidnt but on Swalwell also

utee94 · « **Reply #3307 on:** March 05, 2021, 05:14:12 PM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 05, 2021, 05:10:00 PM

It seemed a little like the dog that caught the car.

Mob makes it to the capital. Set to stand there. A few hundred start fighting cops. They win. They break in. Many more trail the vanguard.

Like, I'm sure not everyone is gonna do something grotesque. But it takes five people or less to beat a 61-year-old savagely. How many to overwhelm security? Not a lot. And it's not like the hundreds are gonna step in and say "you must stop."

Sure. And this right here is just another way of saying-- They had no plan.

Their only idea, was to vent anger, because they were being told the election was stolen.

That is certainly what generates an angry mob.

That is not what constitutes a coup.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #3308 on:** March 05, 2021, 05:17:19 PM »

Quote from: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 05:04:40 PM

That's not a goal, that's an outlandish idea, with no goal and no plan to achieve that goal.

Sorry guys, this was not a coup attempt. People that have actually seen coups, people that live in revolutionary war-torn countries, are rolling their eyes at this hyperbolic categorization of what was an unruly and somewhat violent mob.

I'm certainly not saying Trump is blameless, he's the rouser that stirred the rabble.

But I'm also saying this was not a coup attempt.

I AM the middle ground on this one.

No, it was mob action, which couldn't be effective or well-planned enough to be a legitimate coup attempt.

I doubt they actually believe they would have gotten a hold of Pence, nor do I think, if it REALLY came down to it, that they would have known what to do with him if they did. I don't think these yokel's were REALLY planning to hang anyone that day. If they'd grabbed Pence and then people started yelling "hang him!", I'm guessing sh!t would have gotten real for most of them immediately and they'd shut it down.

But there was a goal. It was outlandish, and their plan didn't exactly have any real causative mechanism to accomplish said goal. But there was a goal.

MrNubbz · « **Reply #3309 on:** March 05, 2021, 05:17:40 PM »

Quote from: FearlessF on March 05, 2021, 05:05:32 PM

I think it was a couple months grounded to his room. No TV, radio, or friends. This was the 70s, before gaming and internets

Ya when you wanted a ride to friends house in the winter you just grabbed the bumper(remember those?) of a passing car.Once at night I almost gabbed a cops bumper realized the mistake and kept running.Ya the '70s - tough times 😁

utee94 · « **Reply #3310 on:** March 05, 2021, 05:19:29 PM »

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 05:17:19 PM

No, it was mob action, which couldn't be effective or well-planned enough to be a legitimate coup attempt.

I doubt they actually believe they would have gotten a hold of Pence, nor do I think, if it REALLY came down to it, that they would have known what to do with him if they did. I don't think these yokel's were REALLY planning to hang anyone that day. If they'd grabbed Pence and then people started yelling "hang him!", I'm guessing sh!t would have gotten real for most of them immediately and they'd shut it down.

But there was a goal. It was outlandish, and their plan didn't exactly have any real causative mechanism to accomplish said goal. But there was a goal.

Not gonna agree with you on that.

A general vague idea of "stop the certification somehow" just isn't a goal.

Beyond that, I don't believe more than a tiny handful of them even had that general vague idea. The majority were just following a mob.

No goal, no plan, no weapons-- not a coup attempt. Any characterization as such is agenda-driven hyperbole, coming from the usual suspects.

I'll leave it at that.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #3311 on:** March 05, 2021, 05:19:37 PM »

Quote from: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 05:04:40 PM

That's not a goal, that's an outlandish idea, with no goal and no plan to achieve that goal.

Sorry guys, this was not a coup attempt. People that have actually seen coups, people that live in revolutionary war-torn countries, are rolling their eyes at this hyperbolic categorization of what was an unruly and somewhat violent mob.

I'm certainly not saying Trump is blameless, he's the rouser that stirred the rabble.

But I'm also saying this was not a coup attempt.

I AM the middle ground on this one.

I'd call that a fair assessment. I think there was to a degree a goal. Not a concrete one. There was no plan, and maybe no realistic goal. I think one could argue, there was an ideal endpoint, but kind of a fantastical one.

I think that's one downside of our current discourse. We use phrasing that promises fantasies. And it's super profitable to to promise such imaginary situations. And a lot of folks know that much of this is kinda stupid burfle, but just enough don't that it should concern.

longhorn320 · « **Reply #3312 on:** March 05, 2021, 05:25:00 PM »

well I just noted that Swallwel's suit isnt the only suit against Trump as a Rep Thompson has also filed suit three weeks ago alleging his civil rights were violated because of Trump

I will be really surprised if both of thses suits arent thrown out

should be interesting

bayareabadger · « **Reply #3313 on:** March 05, 2021, 05:30:37 PM »

Quote from: longhorn320 on March 05, 2021, 05:10:40 PM

so now in the news its being reported that Eric Swalwell has filed suit against Trump and several others in an attempt to hold him responsible for the Jan 6th riot

This will be very interesting

First time Ive ever heard of a sitting US congressman suing a US citizen

Brings up all sorts of legal issues

I really dont think Swalwell has thought this out as it opens the door for all sorts of discovery
not only on the former Presidnt but on Swalwell also

Oh, that's happened through the years. I think Devin Nunes has been doing it for a while now. He's suing that twitter cow and the person behind it.

Both are stunt suits, which I generally think are a gross misuse of the justice system. But they get headlines and donations. Cynical poor acts in my view.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #3314 on:** March 05, 2021, 05:31:00 PM »

Quote from: utee94 on March 05, 2021, 05:19:29 PM

Not gonna agree with you on that.

A general vague idea of "stop the certification somehow" just isn't a goal.

Beyond that, I don't believe more than a tiny handful of them even had that general vague idea. The majority were just following a mob.

No goal, no plan, no weapons-- not a coup attempt. Any characterization as such is agenda-driven hyperbole, coming from the usual suspects.

I'll leave it at that.

I think a lot of them had that general vague idea. Their heads had been filled for two months with "stop the steal". Trumps actual statements on that day, which I quoted, were basically all around the idea of getting Pence and Congress not to certify. The multiple days prior to Jan 6 there were multiple news stories that Trump wanted Pence to do just that and Pence was refusing. This was the powder keg that had been created.

So Trump told the mob that they needed Pence and Congress to refuse to certify. And that if they didn't do so, "you don't have a country any more".

I wouldn't call it a coup attempt. But I think the general idea was clear. I'll bet if you polled the folks that were marching to the capitol building, 80%+ would have said the goal was to get Pence and Congress to stop the certification.

utee94 · « **Reply #3315 on:** March 05, 2021, 05:31:33 PM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on March 05, 2021, 05:19:37 PM

I'd call that a fair assessment. I think there was to a degree a goal. Not a concrete one. There was no plan, and maybe no realistic goal. I think one could argue, there was an ideal endpoint, but kind of a fantastical one.

I think that's one downside of our current discourse. We use phrasing that promises fantasies. And it's super profitable to to promise such imaginary situations. And a lot of folks know that much of this is kinda stupid burfle, but just enough don't that it should concern.

word

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #3316 on:** March 05, 2021, 05:33:25 PM »

I'm really interested to see the outcomes of Dominion and Smartmatic's defamation suits.

To date, I don't think Trump has been named in either, but Rudy and Sidney Powell both have.

longhorn320 · « **Reply #3317 on:** March 05, 2021, 05:56:52 PM »

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on March 05, 2021, 05:33:25 PM

I'm really interested to see the outcomes of Dominion and Smartmatic's defamation suits.

To date, I don't think Trump has been named in either, but Rudy and Sidney Powell both have.

that one really stumps me

If Sidney Powell made all those accusations without proof then she should be roasted

Id be really surprised if she didnt have some sort of proof

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Topic: In other news ...

FearlessF

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bayareabadger

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longhorn320

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utee94

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betarhoalphadelta

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MrNubbz

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utee94

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bayareabadger

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longhorn320

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bayareabadger

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betarhoalphadelta

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utee94

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betarhoalphadelta

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longhorn320

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