In other news (apolitical thread)...

[Mdot21]

the 250% increase in fares on the South Florida part of the line, between Miami and West Palm Beach, which had taken effect the previous month and which we reported in May 2024.

And....this is why Brightline is losing money hand over fist. it has shot way up in cost so much that there is no reason for people in South Florida to actually use it. driving and paying for gas is cheaper now. was a phenomenal deal and awesome experience when it first opened and you could get tickets from WPB to Miami for $5-10 each way. Round trip cost you $10-20, not a problem. when that same trip cost you $100 now- well there is no fucking reason on earth to take it. they also jacked up their monthly passes for riders living in Miami or WPB and commuting for work back-forth from $400/mo to like over $1200 now.

And they are in massive debt and losing money because they spent almost $5 billion dollars expanding new rail to Orlando and building new trains and a station in Orlando. WPB to Orlando is about 2 and 1/2 drive. From Miami like 3 and 1/2 hr drive. And again for what they charge round trip for that train- not worth taking it. Definitely cheaper to drive and sometimes it's even cheaper to fly. Which is insane.

They honestly fucked themselves building that Orlando rail. Should've just kept it local to South Florida and kept prices low and tried to increase ridership and monthly pass sales. Instead they went $5 billion into debt for something that is highly likely to fail.

[847badgerfan]

And they are still talking about taking it to Tampa!

I've even heard chatter on Jacksonville. That would be really dumb. 

[Cincydawg]

The TGV is nice, but heavily subsidized, and at times it's cheaper to fly in Europe.  For some reason, it's cheaper to fly to Marseille than Paris, from here.  And the route changes planes in Paris.  We were planning to fly to Paris and take the TGV to Marseille before I discovered this.

Brightline is pretty clearly doomed.  I don't see a way out of it without government help.

Brightline Loses Nearly $550MM in 2024, but Keeps on Going - Railway Age

At least it exists, which is better than some high speed train projects in the US ....

[utee94]

The TGV is nice, but heavily subsidized, and at times it's cheaper to fly in Europe.  For some reason, it's cheaper to fly to Marseille than Paris, from here.  And the route changes planes in Paris.  We were planning to fly to Paris and take the TGV to Marseille before I discovered this.

Brightline is pretty clearly doomed.  I don't see a way out of it without government help.

Brightline Loses Nearly $550MM in 2024, but Keeps on Going - Railway Age

At least it exists, which is better than some high speed train projects in the US ....

Flights in Europe can be weird.  One time I was flying from Prague to Milan.  It was cheaper to buy a roundtrip and not use the return leg, than buy a one-way.  

[Mdot21]

The TGV is nice, but heavily subsidized, and at times it's cheaper to fly in Europe.  For some reason, it's cheaper to fly to Marseille than Paris, from here.  And the route changes planes in Paris.  We were planning to fly to Paris and take the TGV to Marseille before I discovered this.

Brightline is pretty clearly doomed.  I don't see a way out of it without government help.

Brightline Loses Nearly $550MM in 2024, but Keeps on Going - Railway Age

At least it exists, which is better than some high speed train projects in the US ....

Yeah they will eventually need to get a bailout from gov't. 

And don't forget- Brightline is technically only HSR from WPB to Orlando. The run from the Downtown Miami station to Aventura Mall station to Downtown Ft Lauderdale station to Mizner Park station in Boca Raton to Downtown West Palm station has top speeds of 80 MPH. It only opens up to 125 MPH from the run from WPB to Orlando station.

I love the Brightline, used to take it a lot. But unfortunately they jacked all the prices up and it's just not worth it to me anymore. For $10-$20 round trip I used to take it down to Miami all the time. For $80-$100? Yeah, I'm driving. For $400/mo might be worth looking into getting a monthly rider pass. For $1,200+/mo? Yeah I'd rather go lease a really nice BMW or Mercedes.

[Honestbuckeye]

Yeah they will eventually need to get a bailout from gov't.

And don't forget- Brightline is technically only HSR from WPB to Orlando. The run from the Downtown Miami station to Aventura Mall station to Downtown Ft Lauderdale station to Mizner Park station in Boca Raton to Downtown West Palm station has top speeds of 80 MPH. It only opens up to 125 MPH from the run from WPB to Orlando station.

I love the Brightline, used to take it a lot. But unfortunately they jacked all the prices up and it's just not worth it to me anymore. For $10-$20 round trip I used to take it down to Miami all the time. For $80-$100? Yeah, I'm driving. For $400/mo might be worth looking into getting a monthly rider pass. For $1,200+/mo? Yeah I'd rather go lease a really nice BMW or Mercedes.

Yes.  I have to go to Miami for work from time to time.  The drive is beyond miserable. 

The Brightline  is sweet.  I would pick it up in in West Palm and zip to Miami in 45-opposed to a 3 hour white knuckle drive.  Nice comfy seats - beverage service, wi-fi, everything. 
getting too expensive now. 

[Cincydawg]

These HSRs can't exist without government subsidies, for a number of pretty obvious reasons.  They tend to be nice, in Europe, and comfortable anyway, I imagine Brightline is nice (albeit much slower).  Another great sounding idea that doesn't work.

[OrangeAfroMan]

HSR would be fine, financially, when/if it were to become the default.  Plenty of ridership, money flowing in, everyone's happy.  But these early baby steps are the tough part. 
I wonder if having HSR between the big cities solely, without all the alternative stops along the way, wouldn't be more prudent.  Maybe combine in the price of a ticket a waymo or uber to your actual destination?  

Idk, I think HSR could become a sort of long-distance default mode of travel, if it can survive the now.  It feels weird to have such a successful country with the type of infrastructure we have.  

Even normal rail is stupid, and it's slow AF.  And expensive.  To have absolutely nothing viable between a car you drive and maintain at 70 mph and a fucking airplane going 600 mph, 5 miles in the sky has always been truly bizarre to me.  

[Mdot21]

https://twitter.com/esaagar/status/1975290951787745581

[utee94]

For those interested, MDT just posted an update on his recovery status over on the SEC board.

[Mdot21]

wonder if Google is still hiring engineers...


https://twitter.com/RampCapitalLLC/status/1975576775687291268

[utee94]

Holy cow I shoulda gotten that gig!

[jgvol]

Not an engineer, but perfectly willing to sit on the couch for 600 large per year.

[Cincydawg]

Brightline West Seeks $6B in Federal Support After $5.5B Cost Surge

The cost to build the Brightline West high‐speed line from SoCal to Las Vegas is up to $21.5 billion, prompting the developer to request $6 billion in federal financing.


The line in Florida is losing tons of money, bonds are now junk rated, and it doesn't seem to have any prospects of improving.  Now the proposed line our west is already in financial trouble.  They come out with rosey cost estimates which are nowhere near accurate and then plead for government support.