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Topic: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?

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utee94

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #280 on: September 16, 2024, 08:49:47 AM »
Good Lord you and your obsession with Pedo State.

The Eastern Independents could have and should have organized, but Penn State made a lot more money in the B1G.  Money drives this whole thing. The truth since 1984, and arguably well before that, it just wasn't the same magnitude.

847badgerfan

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #281 on: September 16, 2024, 08:55:16 AM »
I think that Eastern group would have been a financial monster. 

At the time, the Big Ten was still looked upon as the Big Two and little eight.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

utee94

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #282 on: September 16, 2024, 08:57:52 AM »
I think that Eastern group would have been a financial monster.

At the time, the Big Ten was still looked upon as the Big Two and little eight.

PSU is the only current football power among the schools that were the former Eastern Independents, and football is the moneymaker.  Even Texas wasn't enough to sustain the SWC in the new financial landscape, there's no way PSU would have been enough to sustain an Eastern football conference.

PSU needed Big Ten money and they got it.

Regardless, the point remains that PSU didn't move to the B1G for emotional reasons, for a sense of belonging.  They moved for strategic reasons.  Whether it's for more money, or as you suggest to obtain conference affiliation in an era where that was becoming increasingly important for schools not named Notre Dame. 

Gigem

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #283 on: September 16, 2024, 10:37:00 AM »
I believe Arkansas has been to the SECCCG 4 times. But I could be mistaken. Obviously they have not been there since I think around 2005-2008 time frame?  I’ll look it up.

A&M also got close in year 1. One game out, losses to a good Florida team and LSU, but we beat Bama in Tuscaloosa. Very exciting year for our fans, went on to destroy old Big 12 foe OU in the Cotton Bowl.

Texas looks good, but it’s a long way to the CCG. Still not sure how this looks with no divisions. The league feels very clunky to me at this point.
3 times, not four as I thought.  The last time was way back in 2002.  


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #284 on: September 16, 2024, 11:01:59 AM »
divisions would help
a lot
Divisions only help the have-nots have a chance to get into the CCG. 

The haves don't like that. So scrapping divisions ensures that no "unworthy" team will ever get a chance to pull off an epic upset and steal the golden ticket to the CFP. 

FearlessF

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #285 on: September 16, 2024, 11:05:29 AM »
I know

and we also know the tiebreaker will be set up and adjusted going forward to further limit the chances of an unworthy underdog

but, folks luv their underdogs
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Gigem

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #286 on: September 16, 2024, 11:06:29 AM »
Yes, Texas fans don't view the SEC as a brotherhood they longed to join.  Conferences might have been that way 50 years ago but ever since the Georgia/OU court decision in 1984 it's been all about business.  Penn State didn't join the Big Ten in 1991 because they thought they were joining a brotherhood of like-minded fellow fans, they joined because the Big Ten offered them more money.  Arkansas didn't leave the SWC in 1992 because they thought the SEC was their destiny, they left because the SEC offered them more money.  Missouri didn't even want the SEC, they wanted the B1G, but they left for the SEC anyway, because the SEC offered them more money.  And then think of ALL of the smaller schools shifting conferences, moving up from the G5 conferences into the P4 conferences.  West Virginia didn't join the B12 because it was emotionally invested, they joined for more money and exposure.  Same for Cincy, Houston, TCU, BYU.  Maryland left the ACC not because it desperately wanted to play games in the Rust Belt, they left for the promise of more money.  Same for Rutgers to the b1G, plus countless other schools shifting around amongst the G5 conferences.

Honestly A&M is an outlier here, and I understand why.  A&M wanted to move away from UT's shadow and believed that staying in the same conference ultimately worked against its long-term interest, so the A&M administration made a change. Aggie fans wanted a place to belong that felt more like their own.  I think it was the right decision for A&M at the time and for the most part it worked out for the Ags.  But I think it's a bit misplaced, or out of touch with reality, to think that all of the other schools switching conferences, are doing it because they long for a sense of belonging.  I think the Ags are pretty unique in that aspect.

But don't misunderstand our lack of some burning desire to join the SEC, for being unhappy about it.  I'm excited about the new matchups, I'm excited to be reunited with longtime rivals Arkansas and A&M on an annual basis (hopefully).  As you said, many of us felt this move was inevitable, because the B12 contracts were never ultimately going to be able to keep pace with the B1G and SEC contracts, and geographically the SEC makes more sense than the B1G for Texas.  This is the new landscape of college football, such as it is.
I can't speak for most Aggies, but I have often stated that I was perfectly happy with the original Big 12 as it was formed in 1996. It was the only conference I ever knew, I was at the first A&M Big 12 game as a transfer student.  I knew nothing about the SWC or any part of CFB.  

 I loved the format of playing all the teams twice every four years, and we had some really good games and rivalries through that time.  I don't believe A&M started the conference re-alignment carousel with regards to the Big 12, I'm pretty sure that was Nebraska, followed closely behind by Colorado.  Once that seal was broken, I was all for A&M finding the best place for itself.  We truly feel like we were better suited in the SEC, our fanbase is much more aligned with the rest of the conference, geographically it's a great fit, and we match up nicely with facilities and a rabid fan base.  

utee94

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #287 on: September 16, 2024, 11:55:37 AM »
Yup I liked the original B12 too. I liked the format, I was excited about getting to play the then-dominant Huskers, and I even liked the idea of having OU as a conference game.

But I was born and raised with the SWC.  If money hadn't completely changed the sport, I'd have been delighted to stick with the SWC and its bowl affiliations from about 1983, and I really liked all of the other conferences and their bowls as well.  The focus back then wasn't solely on the national championship, it was all about beating your rivals, winning the conference, and getting to a good bowl game.  I enjoyed college football a lot more then, than I do now.

But there's no turning back time, so we have to take what we're given and find the best in it.  Or, alternatively, leave it, if we no longer find it compelling.


Gigem

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #288 on: September 16, 2024, 12:01:39 PM »
Yup I liked the original B12 too. I liked the format, I was excited about getting to play the then-dominant Huskers, and I even liked the idea of having OU as a conference game.

But I was born and raised with the SWC.  If money hadn't completely changed the sport, I'd have been delighted to stick with the SWC and its bowl affiliations from about 1983, and I really liked all of the other conferences and their bowls as well.  The focus back then wasn't solely on the national championship, it was all about beating your rivals, winning the conference, and getting to a good bowl game.  I enjoyed college football a lot more then, than I do now.

But there's no turning back time, so we have to take what we're given and find the best in it.  Or, alternatively, leave it, if we no longer find it compelling.
And it's all Oklahoma's fault (and Georgia's).  Dern Sooners !  (And Bulldogs) 

847badgerfan

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #289 on: September 16, 2024, 12:04:20 PM »
Yup I liked the original B12 too. I liked the format, I was excited about getting to play the then-dominant Huskers, and I even liked the idea of having OU as a conference game.

But I was born and raised with the SWC.  If money hadn't completely changed the sport, I'd have been delighted to stick with the SWC and its bowl affiliations from about 1983, and I really liked all of the other conferences and their bowls as well.  The focus back then wasn't solely on the national championship, it was all about beating your rivals, winning the conference, and getting to a good bowl game.  I enjoyed college football a lot more then, than I do now.

But there's no turning back time, so we have to take what we're given and find the best in it.  Or, alternatively, leave it, if we no longer find it compelling.


Fast approaching this, for many people, including true fanatics like us.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

utee94

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #290 on: September 16, 2024, 12:05:45 PM »
Fast approaching this, for many people, including true fanatics like us.
Sad but true.


:'(

LittlePig

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #291 on: September 16, 2024, 12:09:27 PM »
I think the original Big 12 could have benefited greatly from a divisionless format.  The North division dominated the first 5 years,  then it flipped and the South dominated the rest of the time.  But the divisions never seemed to be balanced. 

Nebraska could have designated Oklahoma as its one permanent rival.  Oklahoma would have needed 3 permanent rivals.   Texas might have needed 4 permanent rivals.   The key is to make that flexible just like The Big Ten's current flex protect program. 

utee94

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #292 on: September 16, 2024, 12:15:51 PM »
I think the original Big 12 could have benefited greatly from a divisionless format.  The North division dominated the first 5 years,  then it flipped and the South dominated the rest of the time.  But the divisions never seemed to be balanced.

Nebraska could have designated Oklahoma as its one permanent rival.  Oklahoma would have needed 3 permanent rivals.  Texas might have needed 4 permanent rivals.  The key is to make that flexible just like The Big Ten's current flex protect program.
The lack of an annual OU-NU rivalry game was definitely a problem with the original B12 that manifested itself in ugly manner over the years.  One of the foundational cracks that led to its eventual undoing.


medinabuckeye1

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #293 on: September 16, 2024, 12:23:59 PM »
Divisions only help the have-nots have a chance to get into the CCG.

The haves don't like that. So scrapping divisions ensures that no "unworthy" team will ever get a chance to pull off an epic upset and steal the golden ticket to the CFP.
I know

and we also know the tiebreaker will be set up and adjusted going forward to further limit the chances of an unworthy underdog

but, folks luv their underdogs
I could potentially see divisions making a comeback because the non-divisional structure doesn't make much financial sense anymore.  

Compare 2021 under the old vs the new set-up:
In 2021 the Buckeyes lost early to Oregon and late to Michigan to finish 10-2.  They missed the B1GCG and the CFP and had to "settle" for a Rose Bowl.  The Buckeyes would have LOVED a second crack at Michigan and that would have been better for the B1G.  

In the AP Poll immediately prior to the CG's:
  • #2 M, 11-1
  • #7 tOSU, 10-2
  • #11 MSU, 10-2
  • #15 Iowa, 10-2
An Iowa upset of M would have shut the B1G out of the CFP completely because we'd have had an 11-2 Champion who lost badly to both Purdue and Wisconsin.  Then we'd have had an 11-2 CG loser and two 10-2 teams that missed the CG.  

Having a 'best two teams' CG would have avoided that possibility because then the Buckeyes and Wolverines would have played a rematch with the winner going to the CFP (even 11-2 tOSU).  

With today's structure I think there are two reasons that it would be BETTER for the B1G to have a divisional structure:
  • In a situation like the above, the league is probably better off with tOSU NOT going to the CG because if they lose it they drop to 10-3 and probably out, and
  • An Iowa upset of Michigan would get the Hawkeyes in WITHOUT knocking the Wolverines out.  


 

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