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Topic: How do you think the US economy is doing right now?

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Cincydawg

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Re: How do you think the US economy is doing right now?
« Reply #154 on: July 12, 2024, 08:21:24 AM »
Maybe it's new learning for some folks, I dunno, but you don't get to be a billionaire on salary and compensation.

You inherit it is one way.  You start some company that goes bonkers is another, and because you own nearly all the stock, you wake up one morning with a billion plus in stock.

And on that billion, you have yet to pay a dime in INCOME tax.  Not a dime (you may have sold some of course, but that isn't part of the billion if you spent it).

Bezos doesn't get much salary because it's irrelevant to his bottom line.  His actual salary is under $100 K per year.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: How do you think the US economy is doing right now?
« Reply #155 on: July 12, 2024, 09:27:19 AM »
I don't know why everyone is focusing on Bezos. He's not even the CEO any more. Not for the last 3 years. 

FearlessF

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Re: How do you think the US economy is doing right now?
« Reply #156 on: July 12, 2024, 09:38:39 AM »
Billionaires are an easy target

no sense focusing on them

the government isn't going to redistribute their wealth

sorry
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Cincydawg

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Re: How do you think the US economy is doing right now?
« Reply #157 on: July 12, 2024, 09:46:53 AM »
Politicians focus on them.  Biden promises to "make them pay" (which is entirely inaccurate of course).  They are an easy target so they are a target politically with nice sounding words that mean squat.

But the overall concept is so apparently appealing ....

847badgerfan

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Re: How do you think the US economy is doing right now?
« Reply #158 on: July 12, 2024, 09:49:03 AM »
Politicians focus on them.  Biden promises to "make them pay" (which is entirely inaccurate of course).  They are an easy target so they are a target politically with nice sounding words that mean squat.

But the overall concept is so apparently appealing ....
No shit, eh?

He's not gonna make his elite megadonors pay a damn thing. He's full of shit, as is the norm.
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Cincydawg

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Re: How do you think the US economy is doing right now?
« Reply #159 on: July 12, 2024, 09:54:56 AM »
Of course, his tax proposal is on INCOME, not wealth.  But it makes for a nice soundbite.

A ton of folks think billionaires must have a lot of taxable income the government can grab, like Bezos or Elon or whoever else gets in the news and is super wealthy.

It's how things are.  

847badgerfan

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Re: How do you think the US economy is doing right now?
« Reply #160 on: July 12, 2024, 10:22:54 AM »
Of course, his tax proposal is on INCOME, not wealth.  But it makes for a nice soundbite.

A ton of folks think billionaires must have a lot of taxable income the government can grab, like Bezos or Elon or whoever else gets in the news and is super wealthy.

It's how things are. 
There's been talk of taxing unrealized gains.

I could probably get behind taxing those, beginning at something like $10 Million or so, of unrealized gains. Meaning, of course, it you made $11 Million in gains, you'd pay tax on $1 Million. You'd pay on $10 Million if you made $20 Million.

Flat tax of, say, 22 percent on everyone making $20K/year or more. If you made $20K, your tax is zero. If you made $30K, you pay taxes on $10K.

I'm just throwing darts out there. I do not know exactly where the numbers would need to be.

Discretionary spending (pork) cuts are a must.

Reduction of Government employees is a must.*

Dissolving Government employee unions is a must.

Reduction in regulations is a must.

* If you are deemed non-essential in the event of a government shutdown, you are automatically out. You ARE non-essential.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: How do you think the US economy is doing right now?
« Reply #161 on: July 12, 2024, 11:20:30 AM »
I prefer the terms free markets vs central planning. 
My issue with these terms regardless of whether you use free markets/central planning, capitalism/socialism, or some other variant is that it creates a false dichotomy. 

In reality there really aren't any "pure" free market economies in the world because government always is involved to some degree. Similarly, there aren't any pure centrally planned economies either because people will cut corners and barter if it benefits them.

Old Soviet Economy Joke:
A comrade in the USSR got approved to buy a car so he went down to the Trabant factory to submit his order. The Trabant factory official told him to fill out his order, put it in the pile, and come back in 20 years to pick up his car. The guy said: "In the morning or in the afternoon?"

The Trabant factory official said: "What difference does it make, it is 20 years from now?".

The guy said: "The plummer is scheduled to come that morning so I'd like to pick up the car in the afternoon."

utee94

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Re: How do you think the US economy is doing right now?
« Reply #162 on: July 12, 2024, 11:21:00 AM »
Does the government give the money back the next year when you have an unrealized loss?

medinabuckeye1

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Re: How do you think the US economy is doing right now?
« Reply #163 on: July 12, 2024, 11:32:07 AM »
Does the government give the money back the next year when you have an unrealized loss?
If it was treated like Capital Gains/Losses are now you'd get a capped deduction that you could carry forward (or backward) for a set period of time.

Exapmle (ignoring @847badgerfan 's $10M floor):
You have $150k in unrealized capital gain in 2023 that you have to pay tax on.

You have a $250k unrealized capital loss in 2024. You can:
  • Carry $175k back to 2023 and file an amended 2023 return with $25k in unrealized LOSS instead of $150k in unrealized gain, then
  • Take a $25k deduction in 2024. You have now used up $200k of your $250k loss and you continue to carry it forward to either offset gains or take a $25k/year deduction. 


Cincydawg

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Re: How do you think the US economy is doing right now?
« Reply #164 on: July 12, 2024, 11:35:06 AM »
My issue with these terms regardless of whether you use free markets/central planning, capitalism/socialism, or some other variant is that it creates a false dichotomy.
This is certainly true, but when folks say "capitalism" in a broad sense, I prefer the term "free market economy", in the same broad sense.

Folks use socialism to mean all kinds of weird things, where as a centrally planned economy is more descrriptive, in my view.  And as you say, nearly every economy is a hybrid.  

A country can have a free market economy (substantially) AND a generous social safety net.

utee94

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Re: How do you think the US economy is doing right now?
« Reply #165 on: July 12, 2024, 11:37:35 AM »
I mean, I understand the mechanics of it.

I just don't agree that you can treat an unrealized gain the same as a realized gain.

I understand the energy behind the effort, trying to find some way to get the "rich" to pay "their share."  

But there are lot of reasons why past attempts like this, simply haven't worked out.

Cincydawg

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Re: How do you think the US economy is doing right now?
« Reply #166 on: July 12, 2024, 11:46:54 AM »
Such a scheme would be great for tax preparers.

Imagine in the first year of it, some billionaire has his company collapse, and he loses say $500 million, or all of it.  Where is he now?  He might never make up the profit in gains.

Temp430

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Re: How do you think the US economy is doing right now?
« Reply #167 on: July 12, 2024, 11:47:17 AM »
I'm pretty sure the average middle class person would tell you that the economy is not doing well. The middle class for the most part don't care what is happening on the stock exchanges.  They may have some funds in the stock market through a company retirement plan or such but they don't really plan on using those funds anytime soon.  What the middle class strongly feels is how interest rates and the cost of everything has gone up the last three years. Add to that all the woke, equity, and climate spending BS that does nothing for the middle class and the Biden administration bailing college kids out of their student loans...well, your gonna get a very pissed off middle class.  

And that doesn't even touch on all the other crap those running the nation have been up to such as the open border or non-enforcement of laws.
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