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Topic: How do college defenses audible?

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2018, 07:44:01 AM »
Well when offenses sort of set up and then 4 guys shift before getting into a stance, the defense needs to be able to adjust and not sh*t their pants or call timeout every time.  So while it may be as simple as saying, "Yes, if the TE flexes out and the RB splits out wide that same way, you two still have the same responsibility."  

But in my experience, it's common to have some players who act like their puppy died when the offense shows them something they haven't explicitly been taught.  Those guys are usually the ones who have tunnel vision about their own position and aren't the type to zoom out and see big-picture stuff.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2018, 07:46:42 AM »
TCU's defense interests me, I'd like to attend a camp on it.  Most defenses want to be stout up the middle, but theirs is designed to be stout on the edges, funneling everything inside - sort of an outside leverage on 'roids idea.  I have no experience with the 3-3-5 and would like to understand it better.

I believe WV is normally running a 3-3-5, too, but TCU actually stops people sometimes.
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FearlessF

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2018, 08:50:32 AM »
some defenses are designed to "spill" everything to the outside and then run to the sideline, most are designed to seal the edge or corner and keep things in the middle of the field where pursuit doesn't have to run as far
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bayareabadger

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2018, 09:52:21 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 16, 2018, 07:46:42 AM
TCU's defense interests me, I'd like to attend a camp on it.  Most defenses want to be stout up the middle, but theirs is designed to be stout on the edges, funneling everything inside - sort of an outside leverage on 'roids idea.  I have no experience with the 3-3-5 and would like to understand it better.

I believe WV is normally running a 3-3-5, too, but TCU actually stops people sometimes.
IIRC, TCU was a 4-2-5. 
They also do something that was relatively unusual, which was split the calls into thirds. The front six and each half of the secondary got separate calls.
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Cincydawg

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2018, 01:57:37 PM »
It's fascinating how Ds and Os have "evolved" over the years, is it not?

One can watch a game from say 1990, and it looks like a whole different thing, much simpler, much less "stuff".

I am reminded me of things like tank warfare or fortress designs.  The defense devises a new technique or tactic and the offense adjusts.  It was very common in WW 2 on both sides to use tank destroyers, often smaller, cheaper, lower armored vehicles with powerful guns often not mounted in turrets to attack tanks.  They then devised different kinds of rounds designed to penetrate armor, like the sabot round.

Fortresses back when developed techniques to bounce cannon balls over the walls, or absorb them.

Cannons developed rifling.
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Entropy

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2018, 02:12:06 PM »
I've often noted with friends I'd run a 4-2-5 as my base with today's offenses.... and my 4 up front would all be 3techs, no 1's and no 5's..   They hold the LOS and collapse pockets and let the guys behind them run.   I also believe the touch required for passing to TE's 10 yards deep over the middle is a lost art in CF.   So I also think TCU's stout at the edges is a good call, especially in pass defense.  
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Cincydawg

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2018, 01:45:38 PM »
With the speed we see today with some 235 pound linebackers, a 4-2-5 kind of general set could make sense.  Maybe your 2 LBs are larger, while your safeties are also on the large side with 3 willowy DBs.  I guess it would be kind of a 4-2-2-3.

UGA shifted to the 3-4 a while back and frankly it looks like a 4-3 most of the time.  The difference is that either of the OLBs can go to the 3 point set on the LOS.  So, they usually would have 4 guys set before the snap.  At times, one would set and then back off late and the other would crowd the LOS.  I thought it was pretty effective, but they also had a bit of talent on that defense too.

It would be neat if ESPN would have a one hour show each week showing more of the details of the game with film.  They could show just how a defense reacted and the offense countered and what happened.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2018, 02:03:38 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 17, 2018, 01:45:38 PM
It would be neat if ESPN would have a one hour show each week showing more of the details of the game with film.  They could show just how a defense reacted and the offense countered and what happened.
Yeah, but they make more money with people yelling vapid things at each other. 
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2018, 08:43:20 PM »
Can't blame 'em.  They show what people watch.  It's the viewers' fault.  
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2018, 08:45:49 PM »
Quote from: Entropy on February 16, 2018, 02:12:06 PM
I've often noted with friends I'd run a 4-2-5 as my base with today's offenses.... and my 4 up front would all be 3techs, no 1's and no 5's..   They hold the LOS and collapse pockets and let the guys behind them run.   I also believe the touch required for passing to TE's 10 yards deep over the middle is a lost art in CF.   So I also think TCU's stout at the edges is a good call, especially in pass defense.  
How can you have four guys in a 3 technique?  A 3 is the outside shoulder of the guard....
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

bayareabadger

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2018, 10:34:15 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 17, 2018, 01:45:38 PM

It would be neat if ESPN would have a one hour show each week showing more of the details of the game with film.  They could show just how a defense reacted and the offense countered and what happened.

I think they do. Several maybe.
SEC film room does that. It's half an hour and could use more concentrated film stuff, but it does a pretty decent job. ESPNU had a Film Room show, but I'm not sure if it's still on. 
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Hoss

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2018, 11:29:55 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 17, 2018, 08:45:49 PM
How can you have four guys in a 3 technique?  A 3 is the outside shoulder of the guard....
He is referring to 3t-type bodies. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2018, 11:49:38 AM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on February 17, 2018, 10:34:15 PM
I think they do. Several maybe.
SEC film room does that. It's half an hour and could use more concentrated film stuff, but it does a pretty decent job. ESPNU had a Film Room show, but I'm not sure if it's still on.
They might, I watch so little I wouldn't know, but someone here might note when it happens.
I avoid the shows where people yell at each other.
I cannot take yelling any more.  It really makes me cringe.  
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Hoss

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2018, 11:57:57 AM »
To the thread topic; alot of the audibling you see on defense is going to be adjusting strength Over/Under in response to the offensive alignment. Sometimes that will necessitate a change in coverage as well. 

Like bayareabadger, I am intrigued by the 3-3-5. I like the idea of being able to switch back and forth between 1-gapping and 2-gapping up front, and of course adding an 8th pass defender. Seems like it would easier to recruit and roster manage also, if you eschew the classic 43 rush end and just go with the DT bodies across the front. 

I'd probably go with one real MIKE-type body at the second level, and flank him with 225lbish dudes who can rush the passer and run with a back. Everybody else would be Man-coverage specialists first and foremost.
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