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Topic: How do college defenses audible?
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FearlessF · « **Reply #28 on:** February 15, 2018, 01:31:57 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2018, 09:09:01 AM

I watch UNC from time to time when nobody else is on of interest. The thing I see consistently is poor tackling. They will be in position and not wrap up or bounce off or whatever. It happens more than for other teams of similar ilk.

I have posited that they don't tackle much in practice perhaps fearing injury, and they had an abnormal number of injuries last year, which perhaps goes to S&C.

What are your thoughts on "live drills" with hard hitting versus easing off to avoid injuries?

Of course, the UNC players may not be that good either.

Frost had this to say about tackling.
We are going to tackle. If you want to be very good at something you have to practice it every day. We will tackle in practice.
Riley was WAY too soft.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #29 on:** February 15, 2018, 01:50:54 PM »

Defensive backs just tossing themselves into the ball-carrier drives me insane. You're small. Your only chance is to wrap up.

It's an epidemic.

FearlessF · « **Reply #30 on:** February 15, 2018, 02:25:19 PM »

the thing that bothers me the most is tackling up high

first of all, you may not bring anyone to the ground doing this

an then with all the concussion issues, any hit above the shoulders could result in a penalty and/or ejection

then you take aim at a shoulder you can easily end up hitting the player in the head

bayareabadger · « **Reply #31 on:** February 15, 2018, 02:57:38 PM »

Quote from: FearlessF on February 15, 2018, 02:25:19 PM

the thing that bothers me the most is tackling up high

first of all, you may not bring anyone to the ground doing this

an then with all the concussion issues, any hit above the shoulders could result in a penalty and/or ejection

then you take aim at a shoulder you can easily end up hitting the player in the head

There’s an unspoken element that if you go too low, you could get someone’s knee, end a season/career.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #32 on:** February 15, 2018, 03:00:33 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2018, 09:09:01 AM

I watch UNC from time to time when nobody else is on of interest. The thing I see consistently is poor tackling. They will be in position and not wrap up or bounce off or whatever. It happens more than for other teams of similar ilk.

I have posited that they don't tackle much in practice perhaps fearing injury, and they had an abnormal number of injuries last year, which perhaps goes to S&C.

What are your thoughts on "live drills" with hard hitting versus easing off to avoid injuries?

Of course, the UNC players may not be that good either.

I sometimes wonder if tackling has always been about the same, but there are more space plays now.

Drew4UTk · « **Reply #33 on:** February 15, 2018, 03:08:55 PM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 15, 2018, 02:57:38 PM

There’s an unspoken element that if you go too low, you could get someone’s knee, end a season/career.

which is why you tackle the torso. it's a helluva lot easier to wrap around something that isn't flapping about like legs or arms... you'll see people hit high and the carrier have the upper body strength to resist it... or low and the knees keep churning kicking the would be tackler away... but wrapping the torso? they're going down...
it's not a macho tackle, but it works 99.9% of the time, where hitting alone only works i'd guess 60% of the time, and hitting high+wrap the carrier is getting a couple more yards, and hitting low+wrap is absolutely dangerous.

847badgerfan · « **Reply #34 on:** February 15, 2018, 03:17:48 PM »

Tackling takes a toll on bodies (for both players) no matter where the hit takes place. It's a very rough sport.

I'd argue for hockey being even more rough.

FearlessF · « **Reply #35 on:** February 15, 2018, 04:10:44 PM »

Quote from: Drew4UTk on February 15, 2018, 03:08:55 PM

which is why you tackle the torso. it's a helluva lot easier to wrap around something that isn't flapping about like legs or arms... you'll see people hit high and the carrier have the upper body strength to resist it... or low and the knees keep churning kicking the would be tackler away... but wrapping the torso? they're going down...
it's not a macho tackle, but it works 99.9% of the time, where hitting alone only works i'd guess 60% of the time, and hitting high+wrap the carrier is getting a couple more yards, and hitting low+wrap is absolutely dangerous.

seems to me the belt buckle or hips would be the target, hoping to not get much higher or lower than that
I just see way too much up around the shoulder pads

Cincydawg · « **Reply #36 on:** February 15, 2018, 04:35:48 PM »

Quote from: FearlessF on February 15, 2018, 01:31:57 PM

Frost had this to say about tackling.
We are going to tackle. If you want to be very good at something you have to practice it every day. We will tackle in practice.
Riley was WAY too soft.

Yeah, I think I agree, you have to do it, over and over. I think UNC plays soft because they practice soft.
Alabama doesn't get accused of being soft.
Is the modern linebacker on average 10-15 pounds heavier than the modern running back?

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #37 on:** February 15, 2018, 08:53:47 PM »

Quote from: Drew4UTk on February 15, 2018, 03:08:55 PM

which is why you tackle the torso. it's a helluva lot easier to wrap around something that isn't flapping about like legs or arms... you'll see people hit high and the carrier have the upper body strength to resist it... or low and the knees keep churning kicking the would be tackler away... but wrapping the torso? they're going down...
it's not a macho tackle, but it works 99.9% of the time, where hitting alone only works i'd guess 60% of the time, and hitting high+wrap the carrier is getting a couple more yards, and hitting low+wrap is absolutely dangerous.

Bingo. That’s why so many now are teaching rugby style tackling. Much more reliable and less risky physicall. Chris Ash brought that to OSU, so to Northern’s point, when you see them go high and miss, they will get chewed out.
Most defensive yelling is not audibles, but rather clarity around one of two things: gap assignments, which are predetermined by the defensive play call but might be hard to figure out for a given offensive formation or shift. Or, player assignments that are designed to change based on offensive shifts or motions.
Then there are the real “audibles”, where the defense is changing the call completely based on something they or the coaches see the offense.
Great example was a couple years ago when the Badgers were killing OSU with a Jet sweep because they were in man coverage. The CB was trying to move across the field with the WR, but consistently got lost in traffic, and the ball carrier was getting around the end.
The halftime adjustment was to call for a rotation when the sweep player started in motion, with the responsible CB rotating to wher the free safety was, up high, and the FS (Malik Hooker) to come down and take the WR in man.

This allowed the FS to come somewhat downhill and visually avoid traffic, and make the tackle. It worked well...they stuffed it 3-4times so the badgers abandoned it after that.

So that required a communication to let the other DBs to know their assignment changed once the rotation began.
https://goo.gl/images/iQNoEz

bayareabadger · « **Reply #38 on:** February 15, 2018, 10:17:22 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on February 15, 2018, 04:35:48 PM

Yeah, I think I agree, you have to do it, over and over. I think UNC plays soft because they practice soft.
Alabama doesn't get accused of being soft.
Is the modern linebacker on average 10-15 pounds heavier than the modern running back?

I just don't think that's because of how they practice.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #39 on:** February 15, 2018, 10:20:15 PM »

To answer the larger question, I believe defenses audible through sideline signals and players making calls and checks to one another, much the way a basketball team communicates defensively (I once watched a college basketball team go over communication which was enlightening).

Plus, defenses are built to match formations and such. Players have what they're supposed to do, techniques, keys to read. They might be told to tweak this and that, but it's not like defenses have "plays" in the way an offense does, granted offensive plays are a lot more granular than we make them out to be.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #40 on:** February 15, 2018, 10:23:10 PM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on February 15, 2018, 08:53:47 PM

Bingo. That’s why so many now are teaching rugby style tackling. Much more reliable and less risky physicall. Chris Ash brought that to OSU, so to Northern’s point, when you see them go high and miss, they will get chewed out.
Most defensive yelling is not audibles, but rather clarity around one of two things: gap assignments, which are predetermined by the defensive play call but might be hard to figure out for a given offensive formation or shift. Or, player assignments that are designed to change based on offensive shifts or motions.
Then there are the real “audibles”, where the defense is changing the call completely based on something they or the coaches see the offense.
Great example was a couple years ago when the Badgers were killing OSU with a Jet sweep because they were in man coverage. The CB was trying to move across the field with the WR, but consistently got lost in traffic, and the ball carrier was getting around the end.
The halftime adjustment was to call for a rotation when the sweep player started in motion, with the responsible CB rotating to wher the free safety was, up high, and the FS (Malik Hooker) to come down and take the WR in man.

This allowed the FS to come somewhat downhill and visually avoid traffic, and make the tackle. It worked well...they stuffed it 3-4times so the badgers abandoned it after that.

So that required a communication to let the other DBs to know their assignment changed once the rotation began.
https://goo.gl/images/iQNoEz

I assume since that was a halftime tweak, they weren't exactly needing to communicate through that. Once they saw jet, the safety was spinning down and the CB up.
But the rest of that makes all the sense.

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #41 on:** February 16, 2018, 07:10:45 AM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 15, 2018, 10:23:10 PM

I assume since that was a halftime tweak, they weren't exactly needing to communicate through that. Once they saw jet, the safety was spinning down and the CB up.
But the rest of that makes all the sense.

Yes, other than to communicate out loud to ensure that all 4DBs were aware, as it would be a huge bust in coverage if any of the 4 was on a different page.
That was just one example. The challenge for the defense is to ensure every gap, every eligible WR or every zone is assigned. Tough when offenses are moving and shifting.

Thus the birth and proliferation of RPOs, as they are usually designed to read the initial reaction of one player, most often a LB, or end, and to execute the opposite of what he reacted to and in effect making him wrong every time. Mayfield did that exquisitely to OSUs young LBs last year.

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Topic: How do college defenses audible?

FearlessF

Re: How do college defenses audible?

OrangeAfroMan

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FearlessF

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bayareabadger

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bayareabadger

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Drew4UTk

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847badgerfan

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FearlessF

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Cincydawg

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Honestbuckeye

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bayareabadger

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bayareabadger

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bayareabadger

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Honestbuckeye

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