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Topic: How do college defenses audible?

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2018, 04:54:55 PM »
Wide running lanes are what's supposed to happen when the play is blocked well and designed well.  If the defense has shown a tendency and the OC sees it and calls a specific running play and it's executed, boom!  The fact that it doesn't happen all that often tells you that it's a perfect storm when all of those things happen at once.  Oftentimes the defense doesn't show an obvious tendency.  Oftentimes the play call isn't just right.  Oftentimes one guy misses his block.

What I hated most as an OL was when I was pulling, the guy next to me getting pushed back - retarding my progress and the play as a whole.  

When you see a DL or LB come through scot-free and kill the QB, that can be any number of things.  Sure, the QB could have audibled and a guy missed it, but that's not often the case.  It's usually more about the DC finding a chink in the OL's blocking scheme and purposely exploiting it.  Or even a tendency of a specific guy can lead to that as well.

Say you're a DC and you want to blitz through the B-gap between the guard and the tackle.  If you blitz your inside LB straight through, either the OL will pick it up easily or due to their scheme, a RB will fill that hole.  But on film, you notice that on a delayed blitz, that guard in particular, when he has no one to block initially, always turns in and double-teams whoever the center is blocking.  That is useful information.  Now you can plan to loop your outside LB towards the interior of the line, getting there a second or two later (on purpose), and that guard doesn't see him and has turned away from him.  He gets through cleanly because the RB only has the assignment to block the inside LB on a blitz.  Now honestly, if you can believe it, whoever is supposed to block that outside LB (if anyone - not everyone is accounted for on every play, by design)should be yelling during the play that his guy (the OLB) is blitzing inside.

It can get frustrating if you're playing guard and no one is lined up on you, no one blitzes immediately, you get a great chip on the nose tackle, knocking him over, but seeing your QB on his back because the OLB got through your area and your TE didn't yell a warning during the play.

Crap like that is why some coaches sleep in their offices, playing out all the what ifs....there aren't many in HS, some more in college, and plenty in the NFL.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2018, 05:02:46 PM »
And self-scouting is just as important....from that example above, if the OC knows that's an exploitable part of his blocking scheme/guard tendency, he can use it for his benefit.  Okay, the RB checks the MLB - he's not blitzing, I'm going to run a banana or swing route - taking advantage of the missing OLB.  The cat-and-mouse game of it is knowing if the coach on the other sideline is smart enough to expose the flaw or not - or if he's smart enough to wait and exploit it at the right time or immediately when he figures it out.

I was a DC for a few years up on the Rez, and I'd talk with the HC a lot about what ifs and all that, and he's laugh.  I was way too deep with this stuff - we were small schools playing other schools who didn't know who their HC was going to be 2 weeks before the season started.  I had come from 5A football in FL - pretty talented and big-time IMO, and our HC had come from OK and worshipped Switzer's Xs and Os, so we were set.  But we didn't need to dip into our thorough football knowledge, because we could easily win without all that.  That is, until we played non-Rez teams.

But the best Rez team of all time wouldn't beat an average 5A Florida squad - we only had like 20 players.  We crushed all of the other Rez teams, but when we played 2-platoon white kids who had 3 meals a day, we'd be down 50-0 at halftime.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 05:04:17 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2018, 05:06:43 PM »
And I have to share this - the Navajo Rez is a basketball-mad place.  Football is a 'meh' to them.  They don't grow up watching it or playing it.  

So one day I spend 20 good minutes installing a new defense, going through what each position does, whether run or pass.  It's over, we go to the next thing, and our good pass-rushing DE goes, "wait, we've been on defense this whole time?"

1 - W....T.....F......
2 - when a guy isn't sharp and plays both ways and doesn't know Xs and Os.....I guess something like that can happen.

Because it did.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2018, 05:10:03 PM »
We only had 3 blitzes installed - A, B, and C.  Boring stuff.  

A few years back, LSU had each blitz named after a state, which I thought was great...if your players know more than a few states, lol. 

But that's the thing, you could name them after anything.  Sandwiches, women's names, cars, colors - it doesn't matter.  The hard part is realizing a lot of these kids, and very often the most athletically gifted ones, aren't football nerds.  They don't appreciate watching football or how a hole opens on offense or how a safety on defense can bait the QB.  They just want to play, so simplification of complicated stuff is essential.  Coaching is teaching, straight up.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2018, 05:33:37 PM »
When UGA had Grantham as DC, they would often be looking around clearly confused when the ball was snapped.  Apparently his defenses were overly complicated and they had a hard time picking up what they were supposed to be doing.

The next year he was gone and it looked a lot simpler and they just played more than schemed, or so it seemed.

I suppose when you have a Roquan Smith kind of player, maybe you just tell him to go do whatever seems best at the time, or I would anyway.  I have rarely seen a player with that much involvement in the plays.


OrangeAfroMan

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2018, 08:35:06 PM »
Yeah, the best scheme only works if the players get it.  

And there's little things that you only even mention once the players get the big things down - like if the defense is blitzing and you're the one getting double-teamed, take it on and look out for a screen pass.  Or if you're an O-lineman and your defender slants away from where the ball is going, let him go and progress up to the 2nd level, look for a LB reading the play.  

You don't get to those little things that make a big difference when a guy can't line up correctly or is a corner who thinks he's better than he is.  Guys will pretend to suck at playing zone so that the DC will only feel comfortable being in man.   
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2018, 08:48:21 PM »
Yeah, the best scheme only works if the players get it.  
Scott Frost said something interesting during an interview.............
said he spends more time in practice teaching technique and fundamentals and less time teaching scheme
he said he keeps schemes simple, but regardless of scheme, once the play starts players need to have fundamentals and technique to be "football players"
blocking, shedding blocks, tackling, moving in traffic, moving in the open field, angles are critical regardless of scheme
as alluded to earlier, a great football player out of position or unsure of his assignment is still better on the field than a player in the right place without the ability to make the play
Riley and Diaco seemed to run practices the opposite way - very little time spent on technique, mostly teaching schemes and plays 
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847badgerfan

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2018, 08:59:02 PM »
Yeah, the best scheme only works if the players get it.    
You bet.

The LSU DC (Dave Aranda) is on record stating that he had not been able to run the same defense he did in Madison because of that. For complex schemes like his, you need a combination of film rats and talent. He had a whole bunch of the former in Madison, for sure, and a whole bunch of the latter at LSU, without question. If he can get all of that talent to buy in to the film part, look out.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2018, 10:04:07 PM »
Scott Frost said something interesting during an interview.............
said he spends more time in practice teaching technique and fundamentals and less time teaching scheme
he said he keeps schemes simple, but regardless of scheme, once the play starts players need to have fundamentals and technique to be "football players"
blocking, shedding blocks, tackling, moving in traffic, moving in the open field, angles are critical regardless of scheme
as alluded to earlier, a great football player out of position or unsure of his assignment is still better on the field than a player in the right place without the ability to make the play
Riley and Diaco seemed to run practices the opposite way - very little time spent on technique, mostly teaching schemes and plays
I feel like some coaches assume fundamentals, especially the higher up you get.  To me, a good coach makes a player prove they possess fundamentals before worrying about schemes.
Yes, an idiot with his hair on fire can still make plays, but if you can put a guy in the right place who can't make the play, that's a player you need to get rid of.  But you don't have to pick one or the other, especially if you're a helmet school.

Once your talented players know what they're doing and are proven to have the fundamentals, THAT'S when you get to have fun and be creative - a mad scientists with scheme.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2018, 10:07:46 PM »
It's been my experience that some guys just hit hard and some don't.  Some can bring down a water buffalo and others can't fell a fawn.  Some get tired and wonder why they're out there on the field and others get tired and keep pushing for the fun of it.

When you have those guys who just happen to hit hard and just happen to make plays, you let them loose - a controlled chaos.  If you don't have those types, you need precision and consistency from your players and plan accordingly.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

847badgerfan

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2018, 10:57:04 PM »
Controlled Chaos was Buddy Ryan. In Chicago, Buddy had the meat and potatoes.

He had Mike Singletary and Gary Fencik on the field as the field organizers, and the rest of the guys bought in.

Neither of those two were the cream of the crop from an athletic standpoint, but when you put those guys out there with Dent, Marshall, Wilson, Hampton, McMicael, Fridge, etc.. You're gonna win.
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Cincydawg

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2018, 09:09:01 AM »
I watch UNC from time to time when nobody else is on of interest.  The thing I see consistently is poor tackling.  They will be in position and not wrap up or bounce off or whatever.  It happens more than for other teams of similar ilk.

I have posited that they don't tackle much in practice perhaps fearing injury, and they had an abnormal number of injuries last year, which perhaps goes to S&C.

What are your thoughts on "live drills" with hard hitting versus easing off to avoid injuries?

Of course, the UNC players may not be that good either.

Drew4UTk

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2018, 09:25:36 AM »
i've watched players at UT do the same thing, and not isolated incidents but as a matter of course- hard hitting fools yes (sometimes, anyway), but fail to make the tackle (really often, unfortunately). no wrapping... it's frustrating. and... it's absolutely coaching. whether it relates to practice or not i can only guess, and i'd guess it does- in high adrenaline situations muscle memory plays a greater role than most would think- that is speaking to practice's that basically play tag "gotcha, play's over" as opposed to real game speed and collision. 

Jerry Rice is said to have ran to the endzone full speed after every practice play- not playing 'simulate/pretend that i did' but actually doing it... i'm thinking that kind of mental positioning "play isn't over yet" plays a heavy role in a players performance, and which is translated to a defensive player when they're getting up off the turf after every practice play, seeing it all the way through every single time... again, coaching. 

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: How do college defenses audible?
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2018, 09:59:57 AM »
i've watched players at UT do the same thing, and not isolated incidents but as a matter of course- hard hitting fools yes (sometimes, anyway), but fail to make the tackle (really often, unfortunately). no wrapping... it's frustrating. and... it's absolutely coaching. whether it relates to practice or not i can only guess, and i'd guess it does- in high adrenaline situations muscle memory plays a greater role than most would think- that is speaking to practice's that basically play tag "gotcha, play's over" as opposed to real game speed and collision.

Jerry Rice is said to have ran to the endzone full speed after every practice play- not playing 'simulate/pretend that i did' but actually doing it... i'm thinking that kind of mental positioning "play isn't over yet" plays a heavy role in a players performance, and which is translated to a defensive player when they're getting up off the turf after every practice play, seeing it all the way through every single time... again, coaching.
I've noticed this a lot with Ohio State at times. I've always thought it was a case of players more interested in being highlighted on Sports Center than anything else. There always seems to be those players that put their head down and bring everything they have to hit the ball carrier, but NEVER use their arms and wrap up. 
It comes down to a couple of things. First, they need to practice tackling. You don't have to go full speed to do this, but you have to practice form tackling. 

The second thing IMHO is that coaches reward big hits and never punish missed tackles. I would love to see a coach show praise to the guy that makes a great open field tackle while sitting someone on the bench that led with his head and completely whiffed on the tackle. That would send a powerful message.

 

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