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Topic: HFA in general and specifically as relates to the four new West Coast

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medinabuckeye1

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Over in the Michigan/Washington game thread we got into a discussion of HFA generally and HFA specifically as it relates to the new West Coast teams.  I think this should be a stand-alone thread because it is ongoing not specific to this one game.  

Some background:
The discussion started in that thread because @Mdot21 pointed out that Michigan has a pretty dismal history in true road games on the West Coast.  I jumped in and pointed out that this wasn't a "Michigan" thing because we all seem to then I reviewed Ohio State's dismal history in true road games on the West Coast.  

The short version for Ohio State and Michigan is that those two teams (the best two in the B1G over the timeframe under consideration) are a dismal 3-10 in true road games against traditional Pac teams.  It is actually worse than even that because several of the losses were blowouts in games where the two teams *SHOULD* have been reasonably evenly matched and the wins only occurred in games in which the B1G team was good enough to end up with double-digit wins AND they were playing a Pac team that was so bad that they finished below .500.  

Now that we have four former Pac teams, how will this impact things?  Will the traditional midwestern BigTen/Big11Ten/B1G teams continue to struggle THAT badly on the West coast or will familiarity make things less difficult?  Will the Western teams similarly struggle mightily against the non-western teams?  

Another part of the discussion was my recollections of a deep dive we did into HFA a few years ago.  We looked at conference games only because OOC HFA is skewed by playing cupcake buy games exclusively at home.  My recollection is that HFA is very much real as evidenced by every single team having a better record in home league games than in road league games.  My recollection also is that HFA seemed to be biggest for the teams that are typically middling in the league.  

I didn't anticipate the middling thing but it makes sense if you think about it.  Looking at the current power rankings and I'm just using @ELA 's here because they are the most recently posted.  Consider four teams:

  • #1 Ohio State
  • #9 Iowa
  • #10 Nebraska
  • #18 Purdue
HFA for Ohio State and Purdue is only plausibly likely to be decisive against maybe 3-5 opponents:
  • For tOSU the next 3-5 teams or #2 PSU, #3 Ore, #4 USC, #5 Michigan, and #6 Rutgers.  Ohio State doesn't play USC nor Rutgers this year so that only leaves three games in which HFA could plausibly be decisive.  Ohio State should win the rest regardless of location.  
  • For Purdue the next 3-5 better teams or #17 UCLA, #16 NU, #15 UMD, #14 MN, and #13 UW.  Purdue doesn't play UCLA, Maryland, nor Minnesota so that only leaves two games in which HFA could plausibly be decisive.  Purdue should lose the rest regardless of location.  

So for teams at the top and bottom HFA is only likely to be decisive in 2-3 games per year but it is different for middling teams like Iowa and Nebraska because for them HFA could be decisive in games against the next better 3-5 teams AND the next worse 3-5 teams so for them:
  • each other
  • #8 Illinois
  • #7 Indiana
  • #6 Rutgers
  • #5 Michigan
  • #4 USC
  • #11 Washington
  • #12 MSU
  • #13 UW
  • #14 Minnesota
  • #15 Maryland
That is most of the league so HFA could plausibly be decisive in the bulk of their games.  


Will the Western teams have a substantially bigger differential between Home and Away winning percentage than the others?

847badgerfan

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Re: HFA in general and specifically as relates to the four new West Coast
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2024, 11:41:25 AM »
TBD, IMO.

I wonder how all of these kids are gonna play skool with all this travel.
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847badgerfan

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Re: HFA in general and specifically as relates to the four new West Coast
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2024, 11:50:01 AM »
Travel logistics could also be a problem.

This is the travel diagram for direct flights out of Madison.



Clearly, getting to Oregon and Washington are going to be a hassle for Wisconsin.

I could not find a map for where flights out of Lincoln go. Same for Penn State. No clue where Iowa, Purdue or IU fly from.

Should have added FSU, Miami, Atlanta and UNC, from my view.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: HFA in general and specifically as relates to the four new West Coast
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2024, 12:10:42 PM »
TBD, IMO.
Definitely TBD and it is going to take a long time to get a real handle on it because with small sample sizes there are going to be oddities.  

An example from the rivalry that I know best, tOSU/M:

Over the last 75 games (1948-2023) the home team is 40-32-3 or .553 with:
  • Ohio State enjoys a 22-14-1 advantage in Columbus, .608 and
  • Michigan is even at 18-18-2 in Ann Arbor, .500.  

However, there is a great example of a statistical anomaly in that the road team actually won five straight from 1963-1967:
  • 1963:  A 14-10 Ohio State win in Ann Arbor
  • 1964:  A 10-0 Michigan win in Columbus
  • 1065:  A 9-7 Ohio State win in Ann Arbor
  • 1966:  A 17-3 Michigan win in Columbus
  • 1967:  A 24-14 Ohio State win in Ann Arbor

Mostly because of that you can even cherry-pick a 20-year stretch where the road team has the advantage, from 1948-1967:
  • The road team was 11-8-1 consisting of:
  • The teams were even at 5-5 in Columbus
  • Ohio State enjoyed a 6-3-1 advantage in Ann Arbor.  

Over a longer time-frame those statistical anomalies get overwhelmed because:
Immediately after 1967 the home team won five straight and didn't lose until 1975:
  • 1968:  50-14 Ohio State win in Columbus
  • 1969:  24-12 Michigan win in Ann Arbor
  • 1970:  20-9 Ohio State win in Columbus
  • 1971:  10-7 Michigan win in Ann Arbor
  • 1972:  14-11 Ohio State win in Columbus
  • 1973:  10-10 tie in Ann Arbor
  • 1974:  12-10 Ohio State win in Columbus
  • 1975:  21-14 Ohio State win in Ann Arbor.  
Similarly, immediately prior to 1948 the home team did pretty well:
  • 1947:  21-0 Michigan win in Ann Arbor
  • 1946:  58-6 Michigan win in Columbus
  • 1945:  7-3 Michigan win in Ann Arbor
  • 1944:  18-14 Ohio State win in Columbus
  • 1943:  45-7 Michigan win in Ann Arbor
  • 1942:  21-7 Ohio State win in Columbus
  • 1941:  20-20 tie in Ann Arbor

Consequently, if you add five years to each end and look at the 30 years from 1943-1972 the home team has a 17-12-1 advantage consisting of:
  • Ohio State enjoyed a 9-6 advantage in Columbus
  • Michigan enjoyed a 8-6-1 advantage in Ann Arbor


LittlePig

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Re: HFA in general and specifically as relates to the four new West Coast
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2024, 02:20:26 PM »
Travel logistics could also be a problem.

This is the travel diagram for direct flights out of Madison.

[img width=135.416 height=332]https://i.imgur.com/pQXrH1O.png[/img]

Clearly, getting to Oregon and Washington are going to be a hassle for Wisconsin.

I could not find a map for where flights out of Lincoln go. Same for Penn State. No clue where Iowa, Purdue or IU fly from.

Should have added FSU, Miami, Atlanta and UNC, from my view.
Don't most football teams use direct charter flights now?  For non-football sports,  yes the non-direct flights will suck no doubt, and for traveling fans it sucks too.     But I don't see travel being a big difference for football teams themselves.  So the charter flight is a 4 hour direct flight instead of 2 hours.  The kids will survive.  Probably the time zone difference is biggest problem to adjust to.

For what it's worth,  since the question was asked,  Iowa usually flies out of Eastern Iowa Airport in Cedar Rapids Iowa,  which is only about 20 minutes from the Iowa campus.  Charter flights are available if you got the money.



847badgerfan

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Re: HFA in general and specifically as relates to the four new West Coast
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2024, 02:27:42 PM »
Don't most football teams use direct charter flights now?
Not many, from what I gather.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: HFA in general and specifically as relates to the four new West Coast
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2024, 05:09:51 PM »
The Left Coast will have a lot of 7:pm kickoffs, 10:pm Eastern, and the Eastern time zone teams will return the favor by kicking off at noon, 9:am Pacific.

FearlessF

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Re: HFA in general and specifically as relates to the four new West Coast
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2024, 10:21:47 PM »
Travel logistics could also be a problem.

This is the travel diagram for direct flights out of Madison.

Chicago isn't far.

I'd guess most teams don't fly into Lincoln

Omaha or Kansas City
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847badgerfan

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Re: HFA in general and specifically as relates to the four new West Coast
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2024, 09:12:26 AM »
Every step in a process is a chance for a failure. Fewer steps = good.
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GopherRock

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Re: HFA in general and specifically as relates to the four new West Coast
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2024, 09:56:51 AM »
Most schools in the Big Ten fly charters directly to the nearest airport to campus.  MSU teams are not busing down to DTW to ship out for road games, likewise Wisconsin down to ORD or the Indiana schools to IND.

IIRC one of the provisions of Penn State joining the league was lengthening the runway at State College Regional Airport so that charters can fly directly into State College instead of busing up from Harrisburg.

Both Oregon and Oregon State fly into and out of Eugene instead of busing down from PDX.

Minnesota still buses to Madison and Iowa City and flies everywhere else.

847badgerfan

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Re: HFA in general and specifically as relates to the four new West Coast
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2024, 10:15:49 AM »
UW generally flies commercial to places it can get to directly from Madison. They bus to Iowa, MN and NU.
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FearlessF

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Re: HFA in general and specifically as relates to the four new West Coast
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2024, 10:38:19 AM »
geez, I hope UNL doesn't bus anywhere
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: HFA in general and specifically as relates to the four new West Coast
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2024, 10:45:13 AM »
Didn't the league used to have a rule that mandated bussing to games within a certain distance?  

I'm assuming that dropped that once the money spigot got cranked up to where the cost was a nonfactor.  

utee94

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Re: HFA in general and specifically as relates to the four new West Coast
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2024, 10:46:00 AM »
Horns will bus to College Station and Dallas.  I assume that's it, these days.

 

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