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Topic: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #154 on: July 25, 2017, 06:26:52 PM »
Another little tid-bit on league titles:

For nine years from 1907 through 1915 neither Michigan nor Ohio State won a league title.  This was, of course, partially because the two teams were not in the conference for part of that time.  Ohio State joined in time for the 1913 football season so they were only in the conference for three of those years.  Michigan dropped out after winning the 1906 league title and returned for the 1917 season so they were out for the entire nine year stretch during which neither team won a league title. 

Outside of that nine year stretch the most number of consecutive seasons without the Buckeyes or Wolverines winning the league title was the four seasons from 2010-2013.  During those four seasons titles were won by Wisconsin (3) and Michigan State (2).  Since Ohio State's first league title in 1916 that is the ONLY four year stretch in which neither Michigan nor Ohio State won a league title.  The three-year stretches of consecutive seasons without the Buckeyes or Wolverines winning the league title are:
  • 1965-1967, titles won by MSU (2), MN, PU, IU
  • 1958-1960, titles won by Iowa (2), UW. MN
  • 1951-1953, titles won by ILL (2), UW, MSU, PU
  • 1936-1938, titles won by MN (2), NU
  • 1927-1929, titles won by ILL (2), MN, PU

FearlessF

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #155 on: July 25, 2017, 08:00:20 PM »
Another little tid-bit on league titles:


Outside of that nine year stretch the most number of consecutive seasons without the Buckeyes or Wolverines winning the league title was the four seasons from 2010-2013.  During those four seasons titles were won by Wisconsin (3) and Michigan State (2).  Since Ohio State's first league title in 1916 that is the ONLY four year stretch in which neither Michigan nor Ohio State won a league title. 

So, things did change recently?  ;)
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Kris61

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #156 on: July 25, 2017, 11:04:06 PM »
I'm not convinced football is going anywhere.  Due to the increased awareness of CTE, rule changes, equipment improvements, practice protocol, etc footfall is safer than it's ever been.

There are still scores of former college and pro players who apparently either don't have CTE or if they do the symptoms are so mild it doesn't have any effect on their daily lives.


Cincydawg

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #157 on: July 26, 2017, 07:43:36 AM »
I'd like to see a Reply button directly below the current last message.  I only see quote.

Wrong thread I know.

There is only so much a helmet can do without growing in size.  You can't decelerate sufficiently in the inch or so distance a helmet provided in padding today.

ohio1317

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #158 on: July 26, 2017, 08:23:40 AM »
Michigan
Penn State
Nebraska

Nebraska and Penn State are close, but I think Penn State is helped by a larger population enough to take the 2nd spot (they have a defacto following on east coast of both lovers and haters).

TyphonInc

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #159 on: July 26, 2017, 11:41:51 AM »
At any given point in time I believe that the most relevant thing to the conference brass is who "is winning" the most championships.  All time the list is as follows (from B1G 2016 media guide with an adjustment for PSU's 2016 title, pg 104):
  • 42 Michigan - last in 2004
  • 35 Ohio State - last in 2014
  • 18 Minnesota - last in 1967
  • 15 Illinois - last in 2001
  • 14 Wisconsin - last in 2012
  • 11 Iowa - last in 2004
  • 9 Michigan State - last in 2015
  • 8 Northwestern - last in 2000
  • 8 Purdue - last in 2000
  • 7 Chicago -  last in 1924
  • 4 Penn State - last in 2016
  • 2 Indiana - last in 1967
  • still waiting:  Nebraska, Maryland, Rutgers
<br> Well I guess we just need OSU to win the next 8 titles and settle this silly discrepancy once and for all.  :88:

fezzador

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #160 on: July 26, 2017, 11:54:24 AM »
Illinois has 15 B1G championships?  Granted, I'm sure many of them were split and won before the JFK administration, but considering how blah they've been in my lifetime, it just seems improbable.

Minnesota's 18 at least seems plausible because they were a legitimate powerhouse in the first half of the 20th century.

LittlePig

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #161 on: July 26, 2017, 12:38:12 PM »
At any given point in time I believe that the most relevant thing to the conference brass is who "is winning" the most championships.  All time the list is as follows (from B1G 2016 media guide with an adjustment for PSU's 2016 title, pg 104):
  • 42 Michigan - last in 2004
  • 35 Ohio State - last in 2014
  • 18 Minnesota - last in 1967
  • 15 Illinois - last in 2001
  • 14 Wisconsin - last in 2012
  • 11 Iowa - last in 2004
  • 9 Michigan State - last in 2015
  • 8 Northwestern - last in 2000
  • 8 Purdue - last in 2000
  • 7 Chicago -  last in 1924
  • 4 Penn State - last in 2016
  • 2 Indiana - last in 1967
  • still waiting:  Nebraska, Maryland, Rutgers
Completely aside from the point:  I find it odd how the most recents are so clustered:
  • 2016:  Penn State
  • 2015:  Michigan State
  • 2014:  Ohio State
  • 2012:  Wisconsin
  • 2004:  Michigan and Iowa
  • 2001:  Illinois
  • 2000:  Northwestern and Purdue
  • 1967:  Minnesota and Indiana
  • 1924:  Chicago
Ok, back to my point:
Ignore Ohio State and Michigan for a minute because that has too much of a tendency between us to devolve into the aforementioned issue of our own points tending to benefit our own schools.  Excluding those two, who would you define as "the school winning the most B1G Championships currently"? 


The all-time answer, of course, is Minnesota but this year they are celebrating the 50th anniversary of their most recent league championship team.  I just don't think that fits the definition of "currently".  Personally, I think the relevant answer to that question requires one to look at something like a rolling 10-25 year picture. 


For this purpose I chose to use 20 years but now that I have the data entered it is pretty easy to switch to another number of years (ties are all broken in favor of the most recent winner, then the tiebreaker winner in that most recent year). 
For the most recent 20-year period (1997-2016):
  • 8 Ohio State
  • 5 Wisconsin
  • 5 Michigan
  • 3 Penn State
  • 3 Michigan State
  • 1 Illinois
  • 1 Purdue
  • 1 Northwestern
The most recent period in which Ohio State did not hold the lead was 1989-2008:
  • 9 Michigan
  • 8 Ohio State
  • 3 Penn State
  • 3 Iowa
  • 3 Northwestern
  • 3 Wisconsin
  • 2 Illinois
  • 1 Purdue
  • 1 Michigan State
Michigan then held the lead back through 1970-1989.  Ohio State and Michigan were tied for 1969-1988 at 12 each.  Here is 1968-1987:
  • 13 Ohio State
  • 11 Michigan
  • 2 Michigan State
  • 2 Iowa
  • 1 Illinois
Prior to that the lead was held by either Ohio State or a tie between Ohio State and Michigan all the way back through 1935-1954.  Here is 1934-1953:
  • 6 Minnesota
  • 5 Michigan
  • 5 Ohio State
  • 3 Illinois
  • 2 Purdue
  • 1 Michigan State
  • 1 Wisconsin
  • 1 Indiana
  • 1 Northwestern
Another interesting little tid-bit that I discovered in compiling this:


From the earliest that it would have been possible (1896-1915) up through 1956-1975 no team ever managed to win 10 or more titles in any 20-year period.  Then it became common for both Ohio State and Michigan for a while:
  • Ohio State won at least 10 titles in each of the 20-year periods from 1957-1976 through 1960-1979. 
  • Ohio State and Michigan won at least 10 titles each in each of the 20-year periods from 1961-1980 through 1972-1991. 
  • Michigan won at least 10 titles in each of the 20-year periods from 1973-1992 through 1982-2001. 
  • Michigan again won at least 10 titles in each of the 20-year periods from 1984-2003 through 1988-2007. 
Since then Michigan hit nine once (1989-2008) and Ohio State has hit nine in six of the nine 20-year periods since 1988-2007 but no team has hit double-digits. 


FWIW:  Other than Ohio State and Michigan no school has ever won more than eight titles in any 20-year period.  The only times another school has won eight were:
  • The six 20-year periods from 1922-1941 through 1927-1946 by Minnesota
  • The two 20-year periods from 1909-1928 and 1910-1929 by Illinois
  • The five 20-year periods from 1896-1915 through 1900-1919 by Minnesota
The most titles in any 20-year period by school:
  • 13 Ohio State and Michigan
  • 8  Minnesota and Illinois
  • 6  Wisconsin and Chicago
  • 4  Iowa, Northwestern, Purdue
  • 3  Michigan State and Penn State
  • 1  Indiana

Not sure how you are counting, but if you are counting co-champions, I believe you should be showing Iowa having 2 conference championships in the last 20 years

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #162 on: July 26, 2017, 12:45:03 PM »
Illinois has 15 B1G championships?  Granted, I'm sure many of them were split and won before the JFK administration, but considering how blah they've been in my lifetime, it just seems improbable.

Minnesota's 18 at least seems plausible because they were a legitimate powerhouse in the first half of the 20th century.

Minnesota won their 16th in 1941.  That was also their second consecutive and 4th in five years (37, 38, 40, 41).  At that point they led the league (League titles, 1896-1941):
  • 16 Minnesota
  • 15 Michigan
  • 8 Illinois
  • 7 Chicago
  • 5 Ohio State
  • 5 Northwestern
  • 5 Wisconsin
  • 4 Purdue
  • 3 Iowa
Since then Minnesota has only won two (League titles, 1942-2016):
  • 30 Ohio State
  • 27 Michigan
  • 9 Michigan State
  • 9 Wisconsin
  • 8 Iowa
  • 7 Illinois
  • 4 Penn State
  • 4 Purdue
  • 3 Northwestern
  • 2 Indiana
  • 2 Minnesota
Illinois is less surprising to me than it apparently is to you.  For one thing, if you look at their history Illinois has tended to be feast-or-famine in that when they are good they are league title level good and the rest of the time they just suck.  Consequently, their overall record is really bad but they do have a decent number of championships because when they are good they tend to win those. 


Illinois' league titles:
  • 1910 shared with Minnesota
  • 1914
  • 1915 shared with Minnesota
  • 1918 shared with Michigan and Purdue
  • 1919
  • 1923 shared with Michigan
  • 1927 shared with Minnesota
  • 1928
  • 1946
  • 1951
  • 1953 shared with Michigan State
  • 1963
  • 1983
  • 1990 shared with Michigan, Iowa, and Michigan State
  • 2001

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #163 on: July 26, 2017, 12:48:42 PM »
Not sure how you are counting, but if you are counting co-champions, I believe you should be showing Iowa having 2 conference championships in the last 20 years

You are right, they do (2002&2004) and I just missed them and left them off my list.  I went back and double-checked that list and I included all the others, just missed Iowa. 

PSUinNC

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #164 on: July 26, 2017, 03:38:58 PM »
Michigan
Penn State
Nebraska

Nebraska and Penn State are close, but I think Penn State is helped by a larger population enough to take the 2nd spot (they have a defacto following on east coast of both lovers and haters).

Funny, b/c I put UNL ahead of PSU exactly b/c of their fans, whom I regard as the best in the country.  I think historically speaking the two programs are about as equal as you can get (including the split national title in 1994  ;)), but I think how the Husker fans bring to the game is unmatched. 

rolltidefan

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #165 on: July 26, 2017, 03:51:47 PM »
I'd like to see a Reply button directly below the current last message.  I only see quote.

Wrong thread I know.

There is only so much a helmet can do without growing in size.  You can't decelerate sufficiently in the inch or so distance a helmet provided in padding today.

[member=1]Drew4UTk[/member] (trying this again)

also, for those that haven't been here long, you can 'call' a poster to a convo by typing @ and then start typing their name, a list of users will pop up, select which one you want. correct me if i'm wrong, drew.

Drew4UTk

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #166 on: July 26, 2017, 09:04:21 PM »
right on [member=12]rolltidefan[/member] ... nailed it...
[member=870]Cincydawg[/member] , i must say your suggestion has already come in handy..

Cincydawg

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #167 on: July 27, 2017, 08:03:05 AM »
Nebraska and Penn State are two venues I would like to see (not the only 2, but high on the list).

The night games at PSU look pretty cool on TV.


 

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