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Topic: Have you tested positive for COVID-19?

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Cincydawg

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Re: Have you tested positive for COVID-19?
« Reply #126 on: June 20, 2024, 09:03:14 AM »
I'm always cautious about the use of the pronoun "they", as I often don't know really who "they" comprises.

Are we talking "government experts" in general?  I understand Fauci is in "bad odor" with most on the Right today, but Trump gave him and Birx an official commendation.

I think it's obvious some mistakes were made, but at the time, some of those mistakes are more understandable given what was known, in my view.

Some were not, mostly pertaining to protecting older folks.  Closing schools was mostly up to school boards, was it not?  I'm guessing some governors mandated that statewide?  I don't recall exactly.  It varied a ton around here.

847badgerfan

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Re: Have you tested positive for COVID-19?
« Reply #127 on: June 20, 2024, 09:28:39 AM »
Big teacher unions lobbied the CDC to keep schools closed.

Some governors listened. Some didn't.

Saint Fauci now admits that keeping schools closed was a mistake, but he still stands by his advice, which was to keep schools closed.
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FearlessF

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Re: Have you tested positive for COVID-19?
« Reply #128 on: June 20, 2024, 09:31:30 AM »
just gotta luv teacher's unions!

those poor folks need protection from their big bad evil employers
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Cincydawg

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Re: Have you tested positive for COVID-19?
« Reply #129 on: June 20, 2024, 09:39:58 AM »
Saint Fauci now admits that keeping schools closed was a mistake, but he still stands by his advice, which was to keep schools closed.
I see reference to the CDC and then to Fauci.  What specifically did Fauci advise at the time?

I lean to thinking these folks tried to do the best they could with the information available, but that could be incorrect of course.

I still don't think Fauci is some evil dude.

FearlessF

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Re: Have you tested positive for COVID-19?
« Reply #130 on: June 20, 2024, 09:48:31 AM »
he was/is a puppet
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Have you tested positive for COVID-19?
« Reply #131 on: June 20, 2024, 09:53:54 AM »
OK, maybe so.  I keep looking for direct quotes, not general assertions.

He even wrote a book (which I haven't and won't read).  I might read a review of it, maybe.

Anthony Fauci book 'On Call' reflects on COVID-19, Trump and public service : NPR
Anthony Fauci book 'On Call' reflects on COVID-19, Trump and public service : NPR


« Last Edit: June 20, 2024, 10:02:43 AM by Cincydawg »

847badgerfan

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Re: Have you tested positive for COVID-19?
« Reply #132 on: June 20, 2024, 09:54:47 AM »
He needs to get out of the public eye and just go away. 
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Have you tested positive for COVID-19?
« Reply #133 on: June 20, 2024, 12:15:16 PM »
I don't think it's prudent to be overly critical of how any population behaved during a novel pandemic, aside from pretending it didn't exist.

Just as people play the lottery, despite the odds, they hope to be the exception.  This was a reverse lottery, we eventually learned, that 99.9% of people 'won' instead of 0.1%.  But when it's not $1.00 but your health or your life at risk, yeah, you're going to be fearful of losing and getting put on a ventilator. 

As in my previous post of the made-up example of 5,000 dead kids being statistically acceptable, but still horrific, how many dead teachers would have been acceptable?  And as a teacher and not knowing the full scope of the virus, I was not at all afraid for my health/life, but if I thought I could possibly carry it, spread it to a student, and have that taken home to endanger an elderly family member, I was not okay with that.
Once we knew the sick and elderly were the ones really at-risk, worry for myself decreased to align with the low risk.  We knew kids weren't, by and large, getting sick from it.  But we didn't know rates of how contagious it was.  The data wasn't there to know, and you can't just guesstimate this shit with people's lives.

When there's a novel pandemic virus, yes, you should be cautious.  That's just plainly true.  When you have data and think you know something, great, that's progress, but making sure you know what you think you know is good, too.
Looking back and saying "we were too cautious" is a good thing.  It's a helluva lot better than the alternative. 
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Have you tested positive for COVID-19?
« Reply #134 on: June 20, 2024, 12:51:01 PM »
Looking back and saying "we were too cautious" is a good thing.  It's a helluva lot better than the alternative. 
I didn't mind some caution. When the thing first hit, I initially wondered whether the world was overreacting, but even in retrospect, supported the Mar 2020 closure of in-person schooling. We didn't know what we were dealing with. 

The problem is that we were too cautious for too long, even when we DID know what we were facing. ESPECIALLY with schools, which we already knew kids had very little risk from COVID and the teaching profession also skews young. 

We could have offered a hybrid model where parents who were more risk-averse and teachers who were more risk-averse or in high-risk groups due to comorbidities could opt into distance learning, while those who accepted the risk and thought that in-person instruction was more effective and important for childhood development returned to that. It would have been better than what many teacher unions were supporting, which was to fight against a return to school for anyone, for as long as possible. 

And remember, that caution was not without cost. The harm it did to childhood development was significant:

Quote
“Children have resumed learning, but largely at the same pace as before the pandemic. There’s no hurrying up teaching fractions or the Pythagorean theorem,” said CEPR faculty director Thomas Kane. “The hardest hit communities — like Richmond, Virginia, St. Louis, Missouri, and New Haven, Connecticut, where students fell behind by more than 1.5 years in math — have to teach 150 percent of a typical year’s worth of material for three years in a row — just to catch up. That is simply not going to happen without a major increase in instructional time.  Any district that lost more than a year of learning should be required to revisit their recovery plans and add instructional time — summer school, extended school year, tutoring, etc. — so that students are made whole. ”

“It’s not readily visible to parents when their children have fallen behind earlier cohorts, but the data from 7,800 school districts show clearly that this is the case,” said Sean Reardon, professor of poverty and inequality, Stanford Graduate School of Education. “The educational impacts of the pandemic were not only historically large, but were disproportionately visited on communities with many low-income and minority students. Our research shows that schools were far from the only cause of decreased learning — the pandemic affected children through many ways — but they are the institution best suited to remedy the unequal impacts of the pandemic.”


847badgerfan

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Re: Have you tested positive for COVID-19?
« Reply #135 on: June 20, 2024, 12:59:11 PM »
Not to mention the social aspect of damage this caused to children.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Have you tested positive for COVID-19?
« Reply #136 on: June 20, 2024, 01:30:34 PM »
How many states closed schools down for months and months?  I really don't recall now beyond some vague notions.  I agree it was too long in many cases.  And it's clear it had a serious cost.

I was in SD for a HS graduation and a speaker noted the class started HS there when the school was shut down.  Apparently they missed a year plus.

I don't recall who was advocating for this, how widely spread it was, and how long it lasted.

I think we know now at least that protecting the elderly should have been the primary focus on all fronts, and everyone else pretty much should carry on.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Have you tested positive for COVID-19?
« Reply #137 on: June 20, 2024, 01:58:57 PM »
How many states closed schools down for months and months?  I really don't recall now beyond some vague notions.  I agree it was too long in many cases.  And it's clear it had a serious cost.

I was in SD for a HS graduation and a speaker noted the class started HS there when the school was shut down.  Apparently they missed a year plus.

I don't recall who was advocating for this, how widely spread it was, and how long it lasted.

I think we know now at least that protecting the elderly should have been the primary focus on all fronts, and everyone else pretty much should carry on.
Los Angeles Unified School District remained remote until at least Apr 2021. I don't know whether they were "fully" open after that time or if they had additional restrictions. I believe the district my kids attend in Orange County were similar. 

I was lucky in that my one son (special needs) was able to have in-person learning the entirety of that 2020-21 school year, and my two other kids were at a charter school for that year which remained open for in-person learning, with the exception of a short stint between Thanksgiving and Christmas where they were doing remote learning. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Have you tested positive for COVID-19?
« Reply #138 on: June 20, 2024, 01:59:36 PM »


We could have offered a hybrid model where parents who were more risk-averse and teachers who were more risk-averse or in high-risk groups due to comorbidities could opt into distance learning, while those who accepted the risk and thought that in-person instruction was more effective and important for childhood development returned to that. 


That's what we did.  

I think there's this tradition of unions in the northeast that may or may not be too powerful, but I don't know how apt that is for the other 95% of the country.  
At some stage, it just becomes a talking point with another villain.  But I don't know.

I reluctantly volunteered to be the online-only person for my grade level.  The other 3 were in-person.  I got up, showered, and went into my classroom every day, as I knew if I tried rolling out of bed and teaching, it wouldn't have been as effective.

We all did our best and every decision we made at a district level was in the best interest of the students.  If that wasn't the case everywhere, then that is unfortunate.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Have you tested positive for COVID-19?
« Reply #139 on: June 20, 2024, 02:04:44 PM »
My guess is the San Diego district was akin to LA et al., they were out the entire 2020-2021 school year, in addition to the end of 2020.  Maybe they restarted in person August 2021.  

 

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