Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)

[Cincydawg]

An important detail about veteran suicide rates is that a significant majority are over 50, many over 70, these are not recently returning veterans committing suicide.

[OrangeAfroMan]

Oh, okay.  That makes it better.  

[Cincydawg]

It doesn't make anything better, but it adds some useful context if anyone thought that those returning from recent conflicts were being driven to suicide as a result in unusually high numbers.

It's not meant to say it's better obviously.

[847badgerfan]

A response from 'Fro to MH got me thinking.

We all knew New Orleans was under sea level.

Fro: "Still is."

**********************************************

Me: 

Let's take a look at the budget expense to keep that city dry (until a Cat 5 hits). I think I will do that. Very difficult numbers to come by, but I'll do my best.

[Cincydawg]

Maybe they could build levees to protect the city.

[utee94]

And then you could drive your Chevy there.

[OrangeAfroMan]

Maybe building cities below sea level between a massive river and the ocean isn't too bright.

[SFBadger96]

Maybe the idea of moving, or closing one of the most culturally significant large cities in the United States, one of the urban anchors of the South, with a population of about 1.3 million people is a really hard one to get any traction for.

[847badgerfan]

How about only those portions of the city and its surroundings which fall below sea level be closed? Sound like a good plan?

[OrangeAfroMan]

Maybe the idea of moving, or closing one of the most culturally significant large cities in the United States, one of the urban anchors of the South, with a population of about 1.3 million people is a really hard one to get any traction for.

Oh, okay.  Well you're right, we rebuilt it in the same place....because of...what?  Tradition?  
Being culturally significant doesn't seem as important when you're under 12 feet of water.  I'm sick and tired of tradition > intelligence......it's not just this, it's a 100 other ways that tradition wins out, and it's brutally stupid.

[847badgerfan]

And brutally expensive.

Have I mentioned the story of the lucrative contract I pulled out of after Katrina hit? Astonishing numbers, and my piece was "only" 3 percent of only one of the massive construction projects. There were thousands of massive construction projects. Still are.

Lots of people made a lot of money - stupid money - off of that thing, and still are. Yet, the city remains in grave danger. Everything was redesigned and rebuilt to withstand a Cat 3 hurricane. Ummm...

[rolltidefan]

technically, it wasn't built below sea level, it sank after it was built. but the act of building and developing it is at least part, if no the primary, reason it's sinking.

saving the part that's above sea level and moving on from the rest seems sensible, but much or most of the quintessential new orleans is the part that's at/below sea level. might as well find somewhere new and start over at that point.

large cities with significant cultural influences have been abandoned before, just not in our country/culture (that i'm aware).

[Cincydawg]

I read somewhere that NO was above sea level when it was built.  The river would flood the area and deposit silt which offset the normal sinkage that occurs.

They build levees and the flooding stopped, usually, so no more silt.  Subsidence.

[847badgerfan]

technically, it wasn't built below sea level, it sank after it was built. but the act of building and developing it is at least part, if no the primary, reason it's sinking.

saving the part that's above sea level and moving on from the rest seems sensible, but much or most of the quintessential new orleans is the part that's at/below sea level. might as well find somewhere new and start over at that point.

large cities with significant cultural influences have been abandoned before, just not in our country/culture (that i'm aware).

That's not entirely true. There were several parts that were expanded into - sprawl - after the original city was planned. That part was, and still is, above sea level. Comfortably above, mind you. 20+ feet. See the map below. The areas on the other side of the river are problematic, and always were. Yes, they have sunk over the years. The soils do not have proper bearing capacity to support urban development. Never have, and never will.