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Topic: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)

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Cincydawg

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #294 on: April 10, 2020, 08:15:36 AM »
"You didn't think they actually spend 10 thousand dollars for a hammer and 30 thousand for a toilet seat, did you?"

The reason this happens is "regulations".  They don't want just a hammer.  Somebody specifies that the hammer has to have all these characteristics, none of which have ever been measured, and the hammer is an inch longer than normal and the head is quarter inch off.  So, a company has to run tests on special hammers to show they qualify, and there are a lot of tests to be run.  If the military would just say they wanted a thousand hammers of normal type, they wouldn't cost much at all.

At times, some nefarious types who are told to write the specs will write them so narrowly than only the hammers made by Cousin Joe match the specs.
Or Billy Bob pays him to write them to favor their hammer designs.

This happens with large companies also.

847badgerfan

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #295 on: April 10, 2020, 08:35:16 AM »
Has anyone ever seen a movie called Independence Day?
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Cincydawg

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #296 on: April 10, 2020, 08:46:31 AM »
It rings a bell.

847badgerfan

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #297 on: April 10, 2020, 08:50:31 AM »
It was pretty popular.
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utee94

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #298 on: April 10, 2020, 09:18:56 AM »
So you're saying... it's Aliens?

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #299 on: April 10, 2020, 09:47:35 AM »
The reason this happens is "regulations".  They don't want just a hammer.  Somebody specifies that the hammer has to have all these characteristics, none of which have ever been measured, and the hammer is an inch longer than normal and the head is quarter inch off.  So, a company has to run tests on special hammers to show they qualify, and there are a lot of tests to be run.  If the military would just say they wanted a thousand hammers of normal type, they wouldn't cost much at all.

At times, some nefarious types who are told to write the specs will write them so narrowly than only the hammers made by Cousin Joe match the specs.
Or Billy Bob pays him to write them to favor their hammer designs.

This happens with large companies also.
This is a lot of it, yes. 

The other part of it is product lifetime. I've worked with defense contractors both on computing projects at a previous job, and storage devices earlier in my career at my current job. 

There's a huge push in the industry towards COTS (commercial off-the-shelf) products. The military WANTS to buy things much more normally. But they basically can't. 

The military does nothing quickly. And once they do something, they absolutely HATE to change it. 

Now, the computer and data storage industries move VERY quickly. It's a constant churn to make products faster and more cost effective, and we're all running 1000 miles an hour just to not fall behind. 

Well, that doesn't work well. Because by the time something has been bid out to defense contractors, they've gone to their suppliers, everyone has gotten their designs in order and submitted back to the military, then the military actually awards the bid to one (or multiple) defense contractors, years have gone by. Which means that whatever computing/storage products were chosen--usually the best available at the time--are now obsolete.

Which means that to continue building something long after nobody else in the world wants it, requires very specialized planning in the supply chain and thus it falls into the "too hard" pile for any company that isn't specializing in supplying long-life industries. And those who specialize in supplying long-life industries understand that what they're doing isn't free.

Add in the fact that everything has to be ruggedized, some things need special coatings for environmental/corrosive, and you get product requirements that are never quite EXACTLY spelled out but essentially mean "can it handle an EMP burst?", and you realize that COTS just doesn't cut it. 

rolltidefan

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #300 on: April 10, 2020, 10:01:05 AM »

rolltidefan

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #301 on: April 10, 2020, 10:06:31 AM »
a lot of the problem is budgeting, at least within local governments.

i have some friends in charge of some aspects of the police force here, and every year they scramble around spending what left in their budget on things they don't need, because if they don't they'll lose that amount in the next budget. so they have no "savings" for when they do need something unexpected and expensive. and when that happens, they go asking for an increase in the budget for that item, and then put it in the budget request for the next year, and so it grows and grows.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #302 on: April 10, 2020, 10:28:17 AM »
The main expense in the military is manpower.  R&D as noted above is also major.  But, I think we should FIRST review out defense commitments and THEN determine what sort of military we need.  We can't just cut without Step One.
No shit.  Who suggested we blindly cut, c'mon man.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #303 on: April 10, 2020, 10:41:00 AM »
I think my point is clear about needing to do this step wise.  I didn't suggest anyone suggested blind cuts at all.

I doubt anyone here is that ignorant.

ELA

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #304 on: April 10, 2020, 10:53:38 AM »
I doubt anyone here is that ignorant.
Have we confirmed that we have no congressmen/women here, before we make blanket assumptions like this?

utee94

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #305 on: April 10, 2020, 10:57:35 AM »
AAA makes a good point...

847badgerfan

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #306 on: April 10, 2020, 11:08:16 AM »
Would there ever be another all-out ground war?
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utee94

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #307 on: April 10, 2020, 11:22:26 AM »
Would there ever be another all-out ground war?

At this point, I think the only reason for a ground invasion would be to occupy specific territory, and the only reason for that is to gain access to natural resources.

So I could see ground war movement against geographical sites sitting on... say... very large oil deposits.

 

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