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Topic: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)

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847badgerfan

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #280 on: April 09, 2020, 09:23:19 AM »
If my wife and I didn't travel so much, we would do it.

Of course, we're not travelling at all now.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #281 on: April 09, 2020, 09:26:40 AM »
A friend of mine took on 2 foster kids along with their 3 kids.  One was, well, slow, and kind of a challenge.  The young girls had serious issues and after 2-3 years of trying had to be institutionalized, she apparently was aggressive and unmanageable and got dangerous.

This couple really tried to do whatever they could manage to help Society.  I heard he retired about a year ago.  I hired him originally out of California.

FearlessF

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #282 on: April 09, 2020, 09:39:32 AM »
We're not talking about feeding every hungry kid on the planet, why are you leaping to hyperbole?  We're talking about every school-aged kid in your school zone being fed, c'mon man.
If I'm only paying for kids in my school district then I'll pay w/o complaint
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847badgerfan

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #283 on: April 09, 2020, 10:46:52 AM »
If I'm only paying for kids in my school district then I'll pay w/o complaint
I imagine part of your property taxes go to the food fund. There are probably state and federal grants too. Of course, grant money comes from taxes.
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SFBadger96

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #284 on: April 09, 2020, 12:08:52 PM »
Surely no one here is suggesting that a government institution should step in on a whim to attempt to replace mediocre parents, or parents who don't earn a good wage?

I have a little experience as a foster parent. It's hard, even in the best of circumstances (which our situation essentially was). The foster system takes kids from broken situations (who are, very often, themselves broken kids), and tries to give them a chance. But a child's bond with her parents is very, very strong, so removing children from their parents, even when the parents are abjectly horrible at parenting, is a difficult process. And when it is bad enough to remove a child--and to keep them removed for more than 6-12 months, the foster system is charged with replacing that bond, and fixing a child who went through very serious trauma. And let's not kid ourselves, essentially every foster family is an amateur one. We think it's hard on teachers to deal with the random kids in their classes for 6 hours a day. Try taking broken kids and dealing with them 24 hours a day, with pretty minimal training, and while also trying to keep the rest of your life going.

While some states do fostering better than others, you aren't going to find a state with a "great" foster system, in the sense of a high percentage of Mayberry-esque families with smiley, happy foster kids who just fit right in without missing a beat.

The standard for the government to step in and replace literally the oldest and strongest form of human contact--parent/child--must be incredibly high. Even the biggest believer in government programs should have serious reservations about replacing the nuclear family with a government family.

Cincydawg

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #285 on: April 09, 2020, 12:10:40 PM »
Humans are imperfect.  SFBadger and his wife are however very very good people.

SFBadger96

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #286 on: April 09, 2020, 05:50:45 PM »
Thread killer. :-)

You have a few too many verys on there, particularly as it relates to me, but thank you. Now let's get back to some government questions...

Defense spending is an interesting topic. Since the end of World War II we have attempted to maintain a ready military, capable of immediately reacting to crises anywhere in the world (that we anticipate). This is an expensive proposition, but arguably it has more than paid for itself (many times over) by helping to stabilize a much more peaceful world than preceded it. Arguably. (I agree with that proposition, but I'm sure there are reasonable, contrary views). 

A massive portion of our defense budget (the budget traditionally considered capital "D" defense), somewhere between about 1/5 and up to about 1/3 is not for operations, but is for R&D, procurement, and other forward looking expenses. Those expenses are arguably necessary to maintain the kind of military presence we've had since 1946.

More cynically, a significant portion of defense department costs are really just disguised jobs programs. It's why bases are hard to close and weapons systems are hard to cancel, even when the service for which they exist doesn't want them. As big a government cost cutter as McCain had a reputation for, one of the biggest reasons the Air Force still has the A-10 is that it is built/maintained in Arizona (McCain was FAR from the only elected official to fight for an arguably unneeded weapons system or base). Personally--as an Army guy--I really like the A-10, but listening to an Air Force officer involved in the budgeting process talk about why it should be phased out (or replaced), I came away convinced.

Another interesting question is what would happen if we simply scaled way back on R&D and particularly procurement. The U.S. will always be likely to be able to ramp up production if necessary, but that would lead to military situations like we had at the beginning of World War II, in which we were pretty far behind the curve for what we needed. There is an argument that given our economy, that would be an acceptable risk: that we should spend less on the military, knowing that we can spend more when the time comes. Obviously, that risk comes with a large cost at the outset of any large military endeavor (especially the kind that calls for total mobilization like we had during WWII). 

However, another piece of these hugely expensive weapons systems--the F35 is a perfect example--is that it is the research and development, not really the procurement, that drives the massive price tags. That's why when we order more F35s, the price per aircraft comes down. It is almost certainly the case that the F35 was too expensive, but the decision to order fewer of them also drives the higher cost per unit, which may make it sound worse than it really was.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #287 on: April 10, 2020, 01:00:26 AM »
My thing with the military is our privileged situation, in which during a war, we concern ourselves with cost, not survival.  We are a gentleman's war-mongers....attacking from afar, attacking from above, attacking via video game joystick.  
If small groups of special ops are more effective than a giant ground army, why not get rid of it?  I don't know this to be true, but I'm confident we could snip 1/3 of the military budget and lose zero effectiveness.  Can you envision a tank battle in 2020?  How many of those do we buy every year?  Maybe it's none, but only because we have 10,000 of them sitting in a warehouse with the ark of the covenant somewheres.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #288 on: April 10, 2020, 07:34:20 AM »
The US is not adding more tanks today (the Lima plant is making some for other countries, Saudi Arabia bought quite a few).  The M1 tanks are just upgraded over time, the newest is the M1A2 and there is an A3 in the works.  A lot of this procurement is stuff the military does not want.

The army did not convince Congress that it did not need more tanks in 2011, so in 2013, Congress funded an additional tanks to be built at a cost of ~$270M. The army plans on building those tanks and parking them in storage. At the end of the day there will be ~200 "brand new" tanks in storage because the Army reduced the quantity of tanks it needed in its force structure - how many of each vehicle and number of troops, etc. Additionally, there are ~4000 tanks in storage in the desert. The plant will continue to produce other products including the Israeli Namer APC chasis and Abrams Foreign Military tanks during that timeframe.

Cincydawg

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #289 on: April 10, 2020, 07:37:58 AM »
The main expense in the military is manpower.  R&D as noted above is also major.  But, I think we should FIRST review out defense commitments and THEN determine what sort of military we need.  We can't just cut without Step One.

But, inherently, Congress wants to retain bases and production of items made in their districts, that simply is inherent.

Aircraft carriers are incredibly expensive to procure and operate.  The air wing costs more than the actual carrier, and of course it is terribly expensive to train aviators to fly the things.  And they then get a job at Delta because they have so much multiengine time.

The Air Force has mainly single engine jets (F-15 excepted) and their pilots get a lot of single engine time, and that matters a lot.


Cincydawg

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #290 on: April 10, 2020, 07:42:30 AM »
“The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.” – Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War (ca 410 BCE)

847badgerfan

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #291 on: April 10, 2020, 08:02:30 AM »
"You didn't think they actually spend 10 thousand dollars for a hammer and 30 thousand for a toilet seat, did you?"
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MrNubbz

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #292 on: April 10, 2020, 08:08:27 AM »
Unfortunately yes just not that over inflated
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MrNubbz

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #293 on: April 10, 2020, 08:14:29 AM »
“The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.” – Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War (ca 410 BCE)
The 1st half is fairly accurate IMO true,some of the people who work for so called defense contractors that I know make my skin crawl.Their fathers,themselves or their kids will never see war.But go to great lengths to convince others why their wares are so important,after coming home from church.They have no skin in the game but in a sense it is a skins game
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

 

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