Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)

[betarhoalphadelta]

On the other hand, we have taught the parents and are teaching the kids that parents don't have primary responsibility for feeding their children.  So the kids whom we are feeding free breakfasts and lunches today will be the parents of tomorrow who don't feel responsible for feeding their children.  One tiny aspect of the problem of generational poverty.

As @Kris60 pointed out, this is one area where the cruelty of children is a positive. 

I'll bet the kids that were being made fun of by their peers for their poor parents probably don't want their kids to be made fun of for the same thing. 

Granted, these days the cruel children would likely be suspended for bullying...

[SFBadger96]

Great exposition, SF!
Are you tying the EC to slavery in the sense that slave states had lower population numbers?  That wasn't necessarily the case.  Virginia was among the 2-3 most populous states, while the New England states not named Massachusetts had relatively low populations.  (Or were you thinking about the 3/5 compromise?)
As you say, the intent was to give small-population states more influence than their population strictly warranted.

The electoral college was not, strictly speaking, to protect the slave-owning states; and as you say, Virginia was one of the most populous states. But, installing a system that took the vote out of the hands of individuals was very much favored by slave-owning states. As Madison said:


Like all decisions made at the Constitutional Convention (and in legislative bodies everywhere), the EC was the product of debate and compromise that incorporated more ideas than just one; slavery was not the only issue that resulted in this decision. Nonetheless, slavery was a key component underlying the decision. The 3/5's clause made it all the more so.

[CWSooner]

That's a good quote of Madison's.

[FearlessF]

In the darkest sense, it's a cost saver for you.

If you don't extend that net and kids go super hungry, eventually that's a crime. Parents get locked up, which you pay for. Kids go to foster care, which you pay for. We get a mess of court proceedings, which you pay for.

Can't deny folks the right to have kids and can't make parents not have problems or be very crappy at it.

folks don't have as many kids while locked up

parents don't have problems and aren't crappy while they're locked up

I'd rather pay for the kids to have better (foster) parents, than pay crap parents

[FearlessF]

I guess they wanted to make sure every kid got something to eat, huh?

to start yes, then it probably became a way to grow and inflate a program run by self serving bureaucrats

I've lived in this rural/small town area my entire life - there aren't too many parents that can't afford a school lunch 

[CWSooner]

As @Kris60 pointed out, this is one area where the cruelty of children is a positive.

I'll bet the kids that were being made fun of by their peers for their poor parents probably don't want their kids to be made fun of for the same thing.

Granted, these days the cruel children would likely be suspended for bullying...

Children don't seem so cruel these days as they were when I was a kid.
Or maybe they just hide it better.
I've got a student transitioning from a boy to a girl.  None of my students have said one word about it all year long.
Two things about that.  1. We wouldn't have had such a student in class when I was in school.  2. If we had had such a student, I can't imagine said student making it through the school day without being slammed into a locker during every passing period.

[OrangeAfroMan]

folks don't have as many kids while locked up

parents don't have problems and aren't crappy while they're locked up

I'd rather pay for the kids to have better (foster) parents, than pay crap parents

The mom isn't locked up, she's still having kids with some other dude.
Absentee parents are crappy parents.  Neglect (even enforced) is abuse.
Our nation's foster care program.....another broken institution.  

[OrangeAfroMan]

to start yes, then it probably became a way to grow and inflate a program run by self serving bureaucrats

I've lived in this rural/small town area my entire life - there aren't too many parents that can't afford a school lunch

So you're not exactly an expert on this then.

[OrangeAfroMan]

Bernie never went on the offensive. He could’ve had a chance to snatch it if he did. 

If he had tried this, he wouldn't have been Bernie anymore and lose his supporters.

[FearlessF]

So you're not exactly an expert on this then.

correct, never claimed to be

I don't want kids going hungry, but I can't feed every hungry kid on the planet

I'd rather more parents were responsible enough to feed their children, like my grandparents, and parents, and I did.
It's not impossible.
and IMO be encouraged as opposed to being discouraged

[847badgerfan]

You need a license to get married.

You don't need a license to have kids.

Interesting, a little.

[OrangeAfroMan]

correct, never claimed to be

I don't want kids going hungry, but I can't feed every hungry kid on the planet

I'd rather more parents were responsible enough to feed their children, like my grandparents, and parents, and I did.
It's not impossible.
and IMO be encouraged as opposed to being discouraged

We're not talking about feeding every hungry kid on the planet, why are you leaping to hyperbole?  We're talking about every school-aged kid in your school zone being fed, c'mon man.
.
Your anecdotal "well me and mine were responsible, upright parents" doesn't help here.  Many parents stink at being parents.  They stink at setting good priorities, they stink at money management, hell - they stink at earning money.  And you're fading this one tiny aspect - the most innocent effect that their ineptness causes - by concerning yourself with how they SHOULD be, but AREN'T.  We're not giving them a cash handout to use to feed their kids.  It's a program that they can't cheat, that puts food in hungry kids' stomachs, and still, pushback.
.
I'm dumbfounded, really.

[Cincydawg]

My guess is that this money is well spent even if some of it is wasted.  Some of any money would be wasted of course.  I read that Headstart is money well spent.

And yes, we'd all prefer a world where parents took the responsibility.

My kids' school system had a large number of AFDF students in it.  They had incorporated decades ago a largely black school district.  Fortunately, they had gobs of money.  I saw quite a few of those underprivileged kids go on and do very well because they had a chance, which they would not have had in the old school district.  I like to focus on them versus the kids who didn't take advantage of that chance.

[bayareabadger]

folks don't have as many kids while locked up

parents don't have problems and aren't crappy while they're locked up

I'd rather pay for the kids to have better (foster) parents, than pay crap parents

The foster care system on average does not produce this outcome. I wish it did. There is a greater demand for loving homes than supply, I am afraid.