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Topic: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)

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MrNubbz

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #84 on: April 06, 2020, 06:26:33 PM »
I consider it far more dominated by American history prior to my great-grandparents' arrival, which is frankly British--even though I very well may have more Neanderthal DNA than English in my heritage (according to 23andme).

Wha...,if it's any consulation you certainly can Cook & Brew better than a caveman.But I doubt they'd like an IPA,dopplebock perhaps
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

CWSooner

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #85 on: April 06, 2020, 06:30:43 PM »
To be honest, though, that charge has been leveled at every immigrant group that's come before. It generally takes 1-2 generations to "fully" assimilate. They said the same thing about the Irish and Italians in the old days.

Heck, you go back three generations and you have my great-grandparents, who all came over from Poland / Eastern Europe and settled on the south side of Chicago--with all the other Poles. Three generations later, when I think of my "cultural heritage" I consider it far more dominated by American history prior to my great-grandparents' arrival, which is frankly British--even though I very well may have more Neanderthal DNA than English in my heritage (according to 23andme).

The charge of "lack of assimilation" is commonly leveled at any new groups of immigrants. And then a generation or two later, when they've assimilated, we forget that and apply it to the new group.

I also think that SW USA culture in particular might be as much of a "meld" as an "assimilation". Most of the SW USA was at one point much more Mexican than it was American--or more accurate is to say it WAS Mexico before the Mexican-American war. You can't erase that cultural impact out here. Heck, every 4th grader has to do a project on a Spanish Mission in California. Around here, Mexican food isn't "Mexican food", it's just food ;-)
I completely agree that there have been times when immigrants met a lot of resistance, even hostility.  (It's true of every country, BTW.  In nearly every case, much worse than here.  For example, could an American emigrate to China and ever be considered Chinese?)  The resisters were and still are called "nativists."  And it is also true that as immigration sources moved eastward and southward in Europe, the resistance was greater.  More linguistic, religious, and other cultural differences.  But they did assimilate,and within a couple of generations, they could consider themselves "old-stock" Americans and even be among those resisting new waves of immigrants.
I'm not a nativist.  I know that we've been enriched by immigration, both financially and culturally.  I'm glad that we are a nation of immigrants.  But I do want immigrants who become citizens to give their allegiance wholeheartedly to the United States of America.  If they can't do that, then they should just remain legal residents.  And the larger the wave of immigrants, the more unlikely it is that the immigrants rapidly assimilate.

You raise another good point about why Mexican immigration has not followed the usual pattern.  You know, in New Mexico anyway, the old Mexican-Americans, those whose ancestors lived in what is now the United States when it still belonged to Mexico, are sometimes as impatient with the recent Mexican immigrants as Anglos are.
Here's a video clip on immigration from Ronald Reagan: 
https://www.facebook.com/NowThisNews/videos/308836506423173/.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #86 on: April 06, 2020, 06:39:35 PM »
When my grandfathers parents came here from Sicily, my grandfather was the first of their children to be born in America. His parents never spoke English, and my grandfather didn’t speak English until he started going to elementary school. He grew up in the house speaking only Italian- Sicilian actually- until he was 5-6 years old.

He learned English in school and now he’s a very old man and he doesn’t speak hardly any Sicilian or Italian. He pretty much forgot it all. He can speak it, but not fluently and it takes him awhile. He really speaks only English, and that’s because his entire life from school to college to his professional life and personal life he only spoke English.
Yep. My grandma* was raised in a house wholly or partially (I don't know which) speaking Hungarian. By the time I knew her she couldn't speak Hungarian any longer, but she claimed she sometimes dreamed in Hungarian.

When you're an immigrant, it's hard when you've been raised one way to "fully" assimilate. So it takes the generation behind you to get there.

I'm the type that I could leave and move to another country. I'd be totally comfortable doing that if I had the right job opportunity. A lot of people find that terrifying; I find it exciting. And obviously I'd do my best to learn the language and "assimilate" but I'd never be truly anything but American.

* Not my grandma. My actual grandmother died when my mom was 18, so I never knew her and the one I knew was my grandpa's second wife. That actual grandmother by blood is the reason I'm 20% Ashkenazi Jew but I have no cultural link the Judaism...

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #87 on: April 06, 2020, 06:42:26 PM »
You raise another good point about why Mexican immigration has not followed the usual pattern.  You know, in New Mexico anyway, the old Mexican-Americans, those whose ancestors lived in what is now the United States when it still belonged to Mexico, are sometimes as impatient with the recent Mexican immigrants as Anglos are.
Well we all know @847badgerfan is just as impatient with American kids :57:

847badgerfan

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #88 on: April 06, 2020, 06:44:06 PM »
Snowflakes.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #89 on: April 06, 2020, 07:21:06 PM »
The immigrant issue won't ever be fixed until they revamp the legal immigration process.  As with the military, as with education, it's all broken and needs to start clean.  These plans need to fit on 5 pages, not 500.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

MichiFan87

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #90 on: April 06, 2020, 08:02:22 PM »
Regarding the population discussion, while I'd argue continued population growth is bad for numerous reasons, it's all kind of a moot point.

The global fertility rate peaked 50 years ago. It's all part of the demographic transition. Population in Europe is already in steady decline, which is part of the reason they're more open to immigration now. US population will peak sometime soon depending on immigration policy.

There are some problems with stagnation of population, but they're much more solvable than the issues that continued population growth causes. And the reality is that the problems of population decline would probably occur even with population growth as more jobs get automated. As we're already seeing with this whole pandemic situation, our society needs to change in a lot of ways to deal with the problems of the future.
“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing”
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #91 on: April 06, 2020, 08:22:19 PM »
The poor, equatorial countries' populations are exploding, btw.  They won't have enough power, water, or anything and they'll acquire more, by any means necessary.
It's all just fluid.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #92 on: April 06, 2020, 10:36:41 PM »
The immigrant issue won't ever be fixed until they revamp the legal immigration process.  As with the military, as with education, it's all broken and needs to start clean.  These plans need to fit on 5 pages, not 500.
The last sentence you just wrote is so true. These bills aren’t 500 pages, they are more like 1,000+. It’s absolute lunacy. 

Mdot21

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #93 on: April 06, 2020, 10:48:55 PM »
The poor, equatorial countries' populations are exploding, btw.  They won't have enough power, water, or anything and they'll acquire more, by any means necessary.
It's all just fluid. 
Yup. Those countries you mentioned plus India and China are putting a strain on this planet. India has 1.35 billion and change. China has 1.42 billion and change. China is about the same size landmass wise as the US but they have over a billion more people. India is about a 3rd the size of the US in landmass and yet they have about a billion more people than the US. 

China and India combined account for about 37% of the global population. There are like 190 countries in the world. Two of them have almost 40% of the entire people in the world. That is insanity. 

The globe might actually need a pandemic for the human species to survive, this planet was never intended to hold this many people. Estimates are on track for the earth having 9.8 billion people by 2050. That is probably not sustainable.

Mdot21

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #94 on: April 06, 2020, 10:53:00 PM »
Here's a video clip on immigration from Ronald Reagan:
https://www.facebook.com/NowThisNews/videos/308836506423173/.
That is amazing. Thank you. I’m not a huge fan of Reagan. He’s got a mixed record in my eyes. But that speech is incredible. And there wasn’t a better communicator in the history of the modern presidency. He wipes the floor with just about anyone. His charisma and ability to connect with an audience and captivate was incredible. He could speak to the entire nation and make everyone feel like he’s speaking to just them. Doubt we’ll ever see someone that gifted and that smooth again.  

Mdot21

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #95 on: April 06, 2020, 11:01:37 PM »
3 policies the US govt has to put in place if we ever want to fix this mess.

1) term limits on senators and representatives. 
 
2) campaign finance reform. get the money out of politics. 

3) keep it simple stupid. these bills are convoluted and 2,500 pages long. INSANITY.

FearlessF

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #96 on: April 06, 2020, 11:17:32 PM »
not sure number 1 would fix anything by itself, but #2 would fix most things

and #3 would certainly help
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

CWSooner

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Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #97 on: April 07, 2020, 01:42:35 AM »
The "Contract With America" Congress passed term limits and Clinton signed them into law.  Unfortunately, SCOTUS declared them unconstitutional.  Sadly, I agree with that reasoning.  It's going to take a Constitutional Amendment to get them.  That's a tough row to hoe.

Campaign Finance Reform is just Incumbent Protection Law.  In its modern form, CFR got its start from the Eugene McCarthy campaign that derailed LBJ's re-election run in 1968.  McCarthy was funded by five rich, liberal Democrats and that was about it.  The party establishment wanted to make sure that would never happen again.  CFR was the fix.  I don't favor this one, but in any event, I think it would take an Amendment as well.

#3 could be enacted by law, I think, and it would be a good reform.
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