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Topic: Game day SOC.

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #350 on: October 08, 2020, 04:40:51 PM »
Are Texas fans regretting pushing Mack out of town? 
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utee94

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #351 on: October 08, 2020, 05:26:47 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on October 08, 2020, 04:28:19 PM
Oh lord, I'm not that old.

Oklahoma is about four or five years removed from just outside the top 25-level. You have to go back to 2010-2011 for them being top 15 or 10ish.

Texas is actually only a couple years removed from some top-15 quality defenses. Herman and Strong each had one. Mack had one top-20 level one in 2011 and then top 10 in 2009. They have been both inconsistent year to year and great at pairing the good defenses with bad offenses.
Eh, one or two good years mixed in with atrocious, is still atrocious.
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utee94

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #352 on: October 08, 2020, 05:28:35 PM »
Quote from: bwarbiany on October 08, 2020, 04:40:51 PM
Are Texas fans regretting pushing Mack out of town?
Nah, Mack needed to go.  He was mailing it in-- poorly-- for the last few years. 

But Texas fans are certainly regretting the subsequent hiring decisions.

As we've discussed many times around here, seems like coaches have a shelf life.  Even very good ones burn out or fade away at a certain point.
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ELA

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #353 on: October 08, 2020, 05:56:33 PM »
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Cincydawg

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #354 on: October 08, 2020, 06:19:41 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on October 08, 2020, 05:28:35 PM
  Even very good ones burn out or fade away at a certain point.
Yeah, look at Saban, once pretty good, now a shell of his former self.
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utee94

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #355 on: October 08, 2020, 09:30:02 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on October 08, 2020, 06:19:41 PM
Yeah, look at Saban, once pretty good, now a shell of his former self.
Yeah, you found the sole exception.

Pretty much proves my point.
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bayareabadger

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #356 on: October 08, 2020, 10:38:03 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on October 08, 2020, 05:28:35 PM
Nah, Mack needed to go.  He was mailing it in-- poorly-- for the last few years.

But Texas fans are certainly regretting the subsequent hiring decisions.

As we've discussed many times around here, seems like coaches have a shelf life.  Even very good ones burn out or fade away at a certain point.
I think they have some shelf life and their fans have some shelf life. The allure of something different is always strong unless you're winning at the Dabo/Saban rate. And Mack was always a hair or two under that even in the best times. 
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MrNubbz

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #357 on: October 08, 2020, 10:41:41 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on October 08, 2020, 08:48:41 AM
This is the weirdest way to spackle over things you don't know. You continue to display your unique ability for fetching bombast from your backside

I accept the results of conference play show me who the best teams are. I also know that being the best team isn't directly correlated to having the best talent. Sometimes teams with good talent underperform by a game or so every year. Oh you know this! so TU underperformed for 14 of those 15 yrs because"I know his Toledo time was successful but probably not where it should've been given the talent at hand" and by what metric do you know that to be accurate outside of self aggrandizement?As I've previoiusly posted that lament isn't evident over MCs 4yrs as HC in the midst of an 8 yr span that not one Rocket was taken in the draft

If you want to pretend profess otherwise, that's fine. But it's silly. FIFY
If you're gonna get heated and erratic, fine.Hardly your bristling pride and seething grievance and aversion to actual protracted results on the field has been duly noted and blissfully woeful
I'll revise my word (you said it went intergalactic, not I): "Matt Campbell is without failing. He is the greatest. Because Dan LeFevour was a beast when Campbell was an OL coach at BG is clear and strong evidence why Campbell simply couldn't be even with Ball State his first two years
I'll bite,let's review that troubled little tale shall we?Ball State and TU both finished 2012 @9-4 with BSU beating TU 34-27.In 2013 A 10-3 BSU squad bested a 7-5 TU team 31-24.Doesn't appear the epic David vs Goliath scenario you were grasping for,almost exactly opposite


 or win a MAC title like Michael Haywood or Dave Doeren"
Oh ya got me Haywood stayed 2 seaons and won the conference with JRs/Srs he didn't recruit and finished with a 10-15 record @ Miami.But he really established himself at Texas Southern where he finished 18-40.Doeren is interesting,and desirable,like Haywood stayed only 2 seasons but finished 23-4 winning the Conference twice albeit with veterans not procured by him but he certainly lead and directed.And the Huskies did appear in the title game the year before Dave arrived - just to be accurate.Must be noted in 9 yrs NIU played for the conference championship 7X(2010-2018).Now there's the talent at hand you were previously pontificating
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 10:53:08 PM by MrNubbz »
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MrNubbz

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #358 on: October 08, 2020, 10:47:39 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on October 08, 2020, 05:28:35 PM
Nah, Mack needed to go.  He was mailing it in-- poorly-- for the last few years.
Like John Cooper but Mack at least grabbed the hardware in smashing fashion.Did Mack ever say"Ah don't hayva Kl-e-e-w?"You can still hear collective sighs from the faithful but we've gotten better
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bayareabadger

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #359 on: October 08, 2020, 11:45:19 PM »
Nubbz, if you wanna say protracted results matter, then John Cooper didn't have the talent to win more than twice in 13 tries against Michigan. And I know you don't believe that. 

I'll address the Ball State thing. In 2012, Toledo started 8-1, got ranked, lost at home despite leading at the start of the fourth quarter. They ran for 311 yards at 6 a carry, won the turnover battle 3-1 and lost (with a slew of penalties). They ultimately finished tied for second having lost to the team they were tied with. The next year, they played at Ball State. Twice in the fourth quarter, they tied it up. Twice they couldn't hold on. They averaged about 100 yards of penalties in those games. And while it is true, that Ball State went 10-3 and Toldeo was 7-5, that's in part because Toledo scheduled a pair of SEC teams and in part because after losing to NIU, Toledo had a letdown against 4-7 Akron. Looking at that, based on watching MAC football at the time, Toledo was good enough to split with BSU and for sure good enough to beat Akron.

As for those coaches, we pointed out Hayward took a team from being pretty bad with recruits from a coach who was 10-27 his last three years (then he got hired by Pitt and fired for hitting his wife). Doeren took over a team in a nice spot. He replaced Jerry Kill, who jumpstarted things after the Jay Novak era got stale. 

But Campbell inherited a team that went 14-2 in conference and split a division title, losing the tiebreaker by 3 in a wild shootout. Somehow, some way, Toledo, which I've been told was barren of talent and had coach in Tim Beckman, who I've been told was a dunce, 87.5 percent of its conference games. I'm pretty impressed. 
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MrNubbz

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #360 on: October 09, 2020, 01:32:53 AM »
I should be charging for this.Nice try @ spin you popped off Toledo had all this talent - Not I,so you've been doing the telling.Simply pointed out their roster was not nearly as resounding as you made it out to be unlike NIU or even CMUs.And Campell lost many starters from that team also.Leading rushers Adonis Thomas(1071yds) & Morgan Williams(671yds),leading receivers WR Eric Page(1152yds) who also had 860 yds as a returner and WRKenny Stafford.Leading tacklerr Desmond Marrow(83 tackles)Diaunte Morrow(63 tackles)Terrel Anderson (54 tackles) and leading kicker Ryan casano (96pts).Rockets lost 6 offensive and 7 defensive starters total from 2011. BSU had better teams those 1st 2 yrs that you thought to pass off a swiss cheese again who actually had a better records, reread those posts I'm not chewing my cud twice - try and remember it kinda help things along.Nice spin on Beckman also,who referred to him as a dunce?I'll wait.......but if you can't admit what a dumpster fire he left the Illini in - then like Elvis you've left the building.Try visiting their team boards and espousing his virtues.And i have no Idea why your caterwauling on about a guy who was propped up repeatedly who should have been shown the door after opening up his tenure with 4 straght losses(not 9 yrs later) to a rival.One that both previous and succeeding coaches had no problem with.You can look it up - i recommend it
« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 02:13:00 AM by MrNubbz »
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fezzador

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #361 on: October 09, 2020, 08:28:32 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on October 08, 2020, 09:30:02 PM
Yeah, you found the sole exception.

Pretty much proves my point.
Been hearing rumors that UT wants to pony up for Urban.

He'd be a whale of a catch... for maybe 3-4 seasons before he burns out again.
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utee94

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #362 on: October 09, 2020, 08:44:49 AM »
Quote from: fezzador on October 09, 2020, 08:28:32 AM
Been hearing rumors that UT wants to pony up for Urban.

He'd be a whale of a catch... for maybe 3-4 seasons before he burns out again.
Fans talk a lot.  Fans were convinced Texas was hiring Saban 7 years ago.

And yeah, IF anyone that has any say in the matter at Texas is actually considering Urban, then they'd know it's only for a few years.  Just gotta decide if it's worth it and have a solid replacement plan already in place.
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bayareabadger

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #363 on: October 09, 2020, 09:10:25 AM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on October 09, 2020, 01:32:53 AM
I should be charging for this.Nice try @ spin you popped off Toledo had all this talent - Not I,so you've been doing the telling.Simply pointed out their roster was not nearly as resounding as you made it out to be unlike NIU or even CMUs.And Campell lost many starters from that team also.Leading rushers Adonis Thomas(1071yds) & Morgan Williams(671yds),leading receivers WR Eric Page(1152yds) who also had 860 yds as a returner and WRKenny Stafford.Leading tacklerr Desmond Marrow(83 tackles)Diaunte Morrow(63 tackles)Terrel Anderson (54 tackles) and leading kicker Ryan casano (96pts).Rockets lost 6 offensive and 7 defensive starters total from 2011. BSU had better teams those 1st 2 yrs that you thought to pass off a swiss cheese again who actually had a better records, reread those posts I'm not chewing my cud twice - try and remember it kinda help things along.Nice spin on Beckman also,who referred to him as a dunce?I'll wait.......but if you can't admit what a dumpster fire he left the Illini in - then like Elvis you've left the building.Try visiting their team boards and espousing his virtues.And i have no Idea why your caterwauling on about a guy who was propped up repeatedly who should have been shown the door after opening up his tenure with 4 straght losses(not 9 yrs later) to a rival.One that both previous and succeeding coaches had no problem with.You can look it up - i recommend it
Charging me? This is speed bag work, keeps me limber. Just out here sharing the MAC knowledge. 

Never said it was resounding. Said it was better than the results. 

You're right they lost some pieces. But they also had some. He inherited a starting QB, now third on the program's all-time passing list. He inherited the No. 3 rusher on that team, a kid who had almost 500 yards. The next two years, he put up 2,600 yards and he stuck on the edges of NFL rosters for six years. He got back the No. 2 WR from the 2011 team, that guy had seasons of 1,113 and 840 yards the next two years is is sixth on the Toledo all-time list in catches, yards, TDs. He also inherited a 6-foot-4 receiver who redshirted Beckman's last year. That young man had 960 yards as a RS freshman and is top-5 in program history in yards, TDs, catches. So he inherited some dudes.

I also never said those Ball State teams were bad. They were good. But they had the same record in 2012 because Toledo couldn't beat them in Toledo. And in 2013, Toledo could've had at least the same record, but it lost head to head again, and then lost to a 4-7 Akron team (Toledo also scheduled better in the non-conference, taking two more understandable losses). 

You're right that Beckman left Illioins a dumpster fire. He did that by getting fired a week before the season. On the field, he had them in OK enough shape that they managed to not have the bottom fall out with the interim coach (then it fell out the next year). He handed Matt a 9-4 team with young talent, and Matt maintained, breaking through to a degree his last year, even if it didn't mean a trip to Detroit.
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