Author
Topic: Game day SOC.
(Read 52666 times)

Brutus Buckeye · « **Reply #322 on:** October 07, 2020, 07:36:46 PM »

Toledo had enough talent to beat Michigan in the Big House, the year that they had their worst record. They've knocked off Penn State, Arkansas, etc.

Checking, it is BYU that has the most P5 wins, as they rack up wins against Pac 12 cupcakes year in and year out. I think they may have beaten Texas a time or two, so a few brand name scalps as well.

MrNubbz · « **Reply #323 on:** October 07, 2020, 07:56:30 PM »

Quote from: ELA on October 07, 2020, 06:46:20 PM

So for 12 straight years the recruiting rankings were wrong?

Toledo consistently has consistently had the most talent in the MAC for 15 years now, save a one off here or there from NIU or WMU.

I dunno,since 2005 NIU has won the MAC 4X C.Mich has won it 3x,Miami & BG 2x and Toledo 1.Jury is still out,your assertion certainly isn't indicated by the actual barometer of competition.

ELA · « **Reply #324 on:** October 07, 2020, 09:17:35 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 07, 2020, 07:56:30 PM

I dunno,since 2005 NIU has won the MAC 4X C.Mich has won it 3x,Miami & BG 2x and Toledo 1.Jury is still out,your assertion certainly isn't indicated by the actual barometer of competition.

That's sort of the point. That coach after coach was able to bring the talent in, but not do anything with it

bayareabadger · « **Reply #325 on:** October 07, 2020, 09:30:43 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 07, 2020, 07:01:13 PM

No look at the previous records before he arrived - I posted them.You are making the leap that Toledo did have talent the record doesn't bare that out.Again the Juniors and seniors Campell recruited won the Title though he wasn't there.There was a reason Beckman was shown the door @ Illinois and Campell has went on to defeat storied programs as a 2nd tier team.That is not a coincidence.Why don't you take the time to find out how many of those pre Campell Rockets went sundays.As opposed to the teams that actually won the conference that you insist didn't have as much talent

I mean, I just did a simple thing. I watched the games.

I watched them go through Terrance Owens, Phillip Ely and Logan Woodside at QB. I watched Kareem Hunt and David Fluellen. I watched Cody Thompson, Alonzo Russell, Bernad Reedy. To your credit, they did not build particularly effective defenses most of his years (I think they had a good bit of speed, but I'm not digging through the names tonight).

Anyway, this is all sorts of confusing. Beckman was shown the door because he pressured players to play hurt. He wasn't canned for ineffectiveness (not that he was particularly effective), but because he got in trouble. Shoot, he got fired one week before the season started.

This talent=conference title thing is silly. Did the 2015 Buckeyes have less talent than MSU? Nope. And even if we want to argue that they didn't have the talent four years into his tenure, but did right after, he was on staff the three years before and you wrote "he was the guy behind Toledo's resurgence about a decade ago but Tim Beckman got the credit." So he didn't have any impact on the talent as a position coach/coordinator, but he suddenly took over and then didn't recruit the good talent until it was going to blossom after he left? It's just too convenient.

And that's not all to say that he's not doing a good job at ISU or won't do a good job at the next step (I think he'll be pretty decent, though perhaps not to BB's solve everything level). But his two third-place team probably should've produced at least one second-place finish (plus not lose to Akron to fall out of a bowl game). And his last two teams were picked to win the West and neither did. The final team lost as an 8 and 9 point to two 8-5 teams and one win would've meant at trip to the title game. They underachieved a little there. Not a lot, but a little. And yes, a team can in fact underachieve five years removed from a 18-27 run.

MrNubbz · « **Reply #326 on:** October 07, 2020, 09:48:22 PM »

15 yrs is a trend not a coincidence and they weren't the 2015 Buckeyes or Spartans.You have to go by results on the field it's why they play the games or we're left with the opinions of those who won't accept those results because it would indicate their findings were forlorn.Long winded diatribes doesn't make it less so.

Alot of reporters/writers at the time said it was Campell's input that made the difference.So it's a coincidence at Illinois the wheels came off.It all to convenient.Listen you may not be impressed by a guy who has defeated national powers at a 2nd tier program.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #327 on:** October 07, 2020, 09:52:07 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 07, 2020, 09:48:22 PM

15 yrs is a trend not a coincidence and they weren't the 2015 Buckeyes or Spartans.You have to go by results on the field it's why they play the games or we're left with the opinions of those who won't accept those results because it would indicate their findings were forlorn.Long winded diatribes doesn't make it less so

By this logic, teams cannot underachieve their talent. This is the point you have made. As we're going in circles, let it be written, let it be done.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #328 on:** October 07, 2020, 10:23:01 PM »

Talk about MACtion!

MrNubbz · « **Reply #329 on:** October 07, 2020, 10:23:32 PM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 07, 2020, 09:52:07 PM

By this logic, teams cannot underachieve their talent. This is the point you have made. As we're going in circles, let it be written, let it be done.

Not over 15 years,If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.So from now on we should wait on your unrivaled insight to comment on the contests instead of the actual results from the field of play

.Would that satisfy your morbid craving for controversy.?

MrNubbz · « **Reply #330 on:** October 07, 2020, 10:42:39 PM »

Quote from: ELA on October 07, 2020, 09:17:35 PM

That's sort of the point. That coach after coach was able to bring the talent in, but not do anything with it

But that is my point,A quick draft check 2009-2016,that's 8 yrs the Rockets had nobody picked in the NFL draft
https://www.footballdb.com/draft/college.html?c=Toledo

But from 2012-2015 Campell went 35-15 so back to the original point before the orgy of disorder interrupted,he didn't have a glut of talent over the opposition like what was previously suggested.He's a solid coach and really thought Sparty would come calling

MarqHusker · « **Reply #331 on:** October 07, 2020, 10:55:45 PM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 07, 2020, 10:23:01 PM

Talk about MACtion!

There's more MAC talk here than at the MAC CCG.

ELA · « **Reply #332 on:** October 07, 2020, 11:04:42 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 07, 2020, 10:42:39 PM

But that is my point,A quick draft check 2009-2016,that's 8 yrs the Rockets had nobody picked in the NFL draft
https://www.footballdb.com/draft/college.html?c=Toledo

But from 2012-2015 Campell went 35-15 so back to the original point before the orgy of disorder interrupted,he didn't have a glut of talent over the opposition like what was previously suggested.He's a solid coach and really thought Sparty would come calling

I think Campbell is a good coach. He was the one to finally harness the talent. MSU did come calling, through back channels, he turned them down. Makes me think for now he's betting on himself to land either a helmet job or a Sunday job.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #333 on:** October 07, 2020, 11:13:51 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 07, 2020, 10:23:32 PM

Not over 15 years,If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.So from now on we should wait on your unrivaled insight to comment on the contests instead of the actual results from the field of play .Would that satisfy your morbid craving for controversy.?

I named players that I watched play football. I watched a not insignificant amount of MAC football. We can talk about an offense with an NFL QB and WR not being able to beat an NIU team with one NFL draft and a division title on the line. We can talk about the next year, when a Toledo team with three NFL picks blew an 8-point fourth quarter lead to a NIU team with a backup QB and one NFL guy (to their credit, when they lost to a 6-5 team to lose the MAC West that year, it was a pretty talented 6-5 team). You seem to be talking about batches of records, not actual players/teams etc.

But if 15 years of evidence can't be wrong, I'm sure 13 is near as good. I'm pleased to learn a certain school with a strong tradition simply didn't have the talent to compete with a school up north. Shoot, couldn't go 2-10-1 with more talent.

(The guy had a couple of teams that should've been a bit better. It's really not actually much of a deal at all)

MrNubbz · « **Reply #334 on:** October 07, 2020, 11:14:05 PM »

Quote from: ELA on October 07, 2020, 11:04:42 PM

I think Campbell is a good coach. He was the one to finally harness the talent. MSU did come calling, through back channels, he turned them down. Makes me think for now he's betting on himself to land either a helmet job or a Sunday job.

Really?The Bastage - I take everthing back

MrNubbz · « **Reply #335 on:** October 07, 2020, 11:23:44 PM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 07, 2020, 11:13:51 PM

You seem to be talking about batches of records, not actual players/teams etc.

I left actual stats I didn't splice in my opinion.So let me get this right NIU won 4 MAC championships but Toledo was better because they under achieved and it fits your narrative that's really it.CMU won the MAC 3x but Toledo was better for the same reasons, even though 3 years leading up to Campells hire they had losing records.And in 8 yrs didn't have a NFL Draft Pick 3 of those during MC's tenure - and that tells you Toledo was loaded?
Lee Harvey you mad man - I want to party with you

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.

Topic: Game day SOC.

Brutus Buckeye

Re: Game day SOC.

MrNubbz

Re: Game day SOC.

ELA

Re: Game day SOC.

bayareabadger

Re: Game day SOC.

MrNubbz

Re: Game day SOC.

bayareabadger

Re: Game day SOC.

OrangeAfroMan

Re: Game day SOC.

MrNubbz

Re: Game day SOC.

MrNubbz

Re: Game day SOC.

MarqHusker

Re: Game day SOC.

ELA

Re: Game day SOC.

bayareabadger

Re: Game day SOC.

MrNubbz

Re: Game day SOC.

MrNubbz

Re: Game day SOC.