header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Game Changer / NIL

 (Read 28851 times)

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12178
  • Liked:
Re: Game Changer / NIL
« Reply #70 on: June 21, 2021, 05:12:35 PM »
No, it doesn't have the force of law. But it sure as hell ain't going to slow down lawsuits aimed at the NCAA and his quote will be in every single brief before lower courts.
True. Although I think the majority opinion itself will be plenty capable of spurring on the lawsuits. 

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17665
  • Liked:
Re: Game Changer / NIL
« Reply #71 on: June 21, 2021, 05:15:52 PM »
True. Although I think the majority opinion itself will be plenty capable of spurring on the lawsuits.
This particular case was limited, and that's how the court ruled.

The next one will be far more reaching, and if/when it reaches the SCOTUS, they've pretty much already indicated to all of us how they will rule.


MarqHusker

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 5502
  • Liked:
Re: Game Changer / NIL
« Reply #72 on: June 21, 2021, 09:06:09 PM »
I appreciate the restraint in the majority opinion,  let legislatures legislate.   doesn't mean I think Kavanaugh was wrong or necessarily over the top to write that  concurrence.   Often concurrence opinions and even dissents can influence the future.    It is a very good opinion (both) to read if one wants a fresh read on amateur athletics.     I've been deadheading roses this evening but plan to go back to reading this again. 

Gigem

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2139
  • Liked:
Re: Game Changer / NIL
« Reply #73 on: June 22, 2021, 10:18:12 AM »
One has to wonder how this will affect the athletic departments as a whole.  Will they still build ever more lavish facilities?  Will they still pay coaches ever increasing salaries (I think we're touching that $10 million mark now for the upper guys).  I mean if the players are really going to be paid, (and I think we all know it's coming that they will be getting money directly from the university in the next 2-5 years) will it mean less money for coaches etc?  And what about the other sports?  

And if you really think about it does Alabama really have deeper pockets than say an A&M or Texas?  Could some "lesser" schools potentially outbid the premier helmet programs for certain players services?  I would say that there have to be some really deep pockets associated with schools like Michigan, Stanford, USC.  Heck maybe even TCU and Baylor could outbid some of the big boys, SMU already did it once before.  All it would take would be a really involved billionaire of the Phil Knight stature to prop up a program.  Imagine if Boone Pickens could have done this 20+ years ago.  Heck maybe his trust and estate is already set up to do it.  

I can totally see the major market programs in large metropolitan areas easily having an advantage.  Just because someone has bought into a players NIL doesn't mean they can own the whole enchilada.  For example, how many brands does Peyton Manning pimp?  One player can have multiple endorsements with multiple businesses.  Car dealerships, restaurants, the list is endless and not necessarily exclusive.  

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17665
  • Liked:
Re: Game Changer / NIL
« Reply #74 on: June 22, 2021, 10:24:38 AM »
One has to wonder how this will affect the athletic departments as a whole.  Will they still build ever more lavish facilities?  Will they still pay coaches ever increasing salaries (I think we're touching that $10 million mark now for the upper guys).  I mean if the players are really going to be paid, (and I think we all know it's coming that they will be getting money directly from the university in the next 2-5 years) will it mean less money for coaches etc?  And what about the other sports? 

And if you really think about it does Alabama really have deeper pockets than say an A&M or Texas?  Could some "lesser" schools potentially outbid the premier helmet programs for certain players services?  I would say that there have to be some really deep pockets associated with schools like Michigan, Stanford, USC.  Heck maybe even TCU and Baylor could outbid some of the big boys, SMU already did it once before.  All it would take would be a really involved billionaire of the Phil Knight stature to prop up a program.  Imagine if Boone Pickens could have done this 20+ years ago.  Heck maybe his trust and estate is already set up to do it. 

I can totally see the major market programs in large metropolitan areas easily having an advantage.  Just because someone has bought into a players NIL doesn't mean they can own the whole enchilada.  For example, how many brands does Peyton Manning pimp?  One player can have multiple endorsements with multiple businesses.  Car dealerships, restaurants, the list is endless and not necessarily exclusive. 

Exclusivity can be written into the contract, and I thoroughly expect it will be, in many cases.  If I'm Joe Billionaire Booster I'm not paying $500,000 for that 5* QB, and not get sole control of him.

Some players will probably trade the certainty of an exclusive contract, for the potential earnings of multiple contracts, but that's a risk/reward decision and I think over time, the free market for paying college players, will sort itself out.


FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37500
  • Liked:
Re: Game Changer / NIL
« Reply #75 on: June 22, 2021, 10:47:29 AM »
high school seniors are going to need agents
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17665
  • Liked:
Re: Game Changer / NIL
« Reply #76 on: June 22, 2021, 10:53:09 AM »
high school seniors are going to need agents
The good ones already have them.

They call them "trainers" or "7-on-7 coaches" or "Uncle Joe" or whatever, but they all, already have them.

Gigem

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2139
  • Liked:
Re: Game Changer / NIL
« Reply #77 on: June 22, 2021, 11:34:50 AM »
Im betting that in the beginning players will probably sign exclusive contracts, especially while the market is finding itself. But eventually players will figure out what’s best for them, and that if you’re a major playmaker of the VY or JFF stature you’d be losing money in the longer term. 

And I think the $500k-1.2 million figure thrown around is low. I’m thinking some players could command $2-5 million in deals and endorsements in their senior year. So for a player that signs an exclusive deal for $800,000 as a redshirt freshman they could potentially be giving up millions if they have a breakout junior/senior year. Think Von Miller or heck even Colt McCoy. 

As always, the market will ultimately decide. 

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37500
  • Liked:
Re: Game Changer / NIL
« Reply #78 on: June 22, 2021, 12:03:22 PM »
The good ones already have them.

They call them "trainers" or "7-on-7 coaches" or "Uncle Joe" or whatever, but they all, already have them.
uncle joe will be phased out by some real agents looking for bigger money
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17665
  • Liked:
Re: Game Changer / NIL
« Reply #79 on: June 22, 2021, 12:44:09 PM »
uncle joe will be phased out by some real agents looking for bigger money
For sure.  I'm just pointing out that they already have agents.  

Now that the money will be above the table instead of under it, the quality of the agents will no doubt increase.

SFBadger96

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 1243
  • Liked:
Re: Game Changer / NIL
« Reply #80 on: June 22, 2021, 12:54:31 PM »
Everyone's already said it, but this decision and the concurrence are a BFD. The concurrence is also correct that the issue is more complicated than simply figuring out a market rate for major college football and men's basketball salaries. But figuring out that market rate, and how it fits into the various other laws governing colleges that receive federal funding (e.g., all of them that participate at the high levels of the NCAA), is coming--and fast.

I know this will hit some nerves, but one of the more interesting aspects of this is how revenue vs. non-revenue sports function. One of the big issues in women's sports right now is the argument that with similar promotion to the men's side, women's sports are perfectly capable of generating the same kind of revenue as men's sports. There is a lot of chatter right now on the finance side that there is a lot more growth available in women's sports, and that adequate marketing is one of the keys to making that happen.

How that plays under Title IX, and what it means as between the various "non-revenue" sports (many of which are revenue sports at certain schools). To be clear, this isn't just a gender issue. How much better would college baseball or tennis--or everyone's favorite sad-sack underdog: wrestling--do if they were robustly marketed?

Also, how does it implicate market drivers, like the media actors who control much of the marketing (I'm looking at you, Disney/ABC/ESPN)? It's not hard to imagine lawsuits against the networks for their failure to promote the traditionally non-revenue sports (women's or men's).

The Supreme Court's point about what constitutes amateurism is also a fascinating question--and one that I'm sure will be litigated to death in the near future. All sports have a tribal component to them. That's why even in EUFA club competition, they still talk about Spanish, English, French, and German (etc., etc.) nationals playing for the individual club teams. The University of Wisconsin athletic department owes a great deal of its financial success to being the premier state university for the state of Wisconsin. So people in Wisconsin, who have no affiliation with the university other than paying taxes and living in the state, rabidly support the school's athletics. Not as much as the Packers, Brewers, or Bucks--but they still do.

Also, there is tons of evidence that successful athletics programs raise the profile of a university and help it attract better academic talent. Notre Dame, Michigan, and even Wisconsin, all provide pretty good case stories. So the athletics and the academics are intertwined, but how, exactly, is going to be difficult to parse out into how to pay student-athletes.

How these tribal affiliations--including the status of the athletes as students--impact the marketing and financial success of collegiate sports is a fascinating, and undoubtedly complicated subject.

Finally (at least for now, from me), what is the tertiary impact on the sports themselves of a changing collegiate landscape. Unquestionably, the lure of a college scholarship has impacted who plays what sports as kids, and has helped built a youth sports industrial complex. How will the availability of college-level paychecks--and the potential disparity in paychecks between the sports--impact the development of youth sports? 

All fascinating things to consider. Too bad I still have a day job and a mortgage to pay.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17665
  • Liked:
Re: Game Changer / NIL
« Reply #81 on: June 22, 2021, 01:18:09 PM »
I don't believe there are very many sports that are currently below the "revenue-generating line" that would move above it with substantially more marketing.

There might be a handful.  For example, college baseball actually generates revenue at Texas, so it could at other places where it's currently marginal, but would it EVER generate revenue at Northwestern or Purdue or even Michigan?

I just don't believe there's some large market of untapped revenue potential lurking amongst the Olympic sports.  If there were, then the aggressively $-chasing athletic departments  would likely have already unearthed them.

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37500
  • Liked:
Re: Game Changer / NIL
« Reply #82 on: June 22, 2021, 09:19:30 PM »
marketing dollars will be spent the same way any business operates

best bang for your buck

if a female soccer player wants move marketing to enhance her value, she should talk to her agent
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MaximumSam

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13092
  • Liked:
Re: Game Changer / NIL
« Reply #83 on: June 22, 2021, 09:34:48 PM »
Trying to figure what is "profitable" is a tough endeavor. A simple equation would be what is made over what is spent. But are scholarships "spent" money? How do you quantify what winning a lesser followed sport gives you? Are scholarships for say, people who got high scores on the SAT profitable? 

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.