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Topic: For those who think recruiting doesn't matter or 5* aren't

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medinabuckeye1

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For those who think recruiting doesn't matter or 5* aren't
« on: December 05, 2022, 10:51:16 AM »
Here is the 247 2022 CFB Talent Composite.  Basically this is a list of the most talented teams in CFB this year based on the last few years' recruiting rankings.  I am comparing here to the current CFP Rankings and for unranked teams to their records:

  • Bama, #5
  • Georgia, #1
  • Ohio State, #4
  • aTm, 5-7/2-6
  • Clemson, #7
  • Texas, #20
  • Oregon, #15
  • LSU, #17
  • Oklahoma, 6-6/3-6 (to be fair they are in an unplanned coaching transition)
  • Notre Dame, #21 (also in an unplanned coaching transition)
  • USC, #10
  • Miami, 5-7/3-5
  • Michigan, #2
  • Florida, 6-6/3-5
  • Penn State, #11
  • UNC, 9-4/6-2 (did make their CG)
  • Florida State, #13
  • Auburn, 5-7/2-6
  • Tennessee, #6
  • Washington, #12
  • USCe, #19
  • Ole Miss, 8-4/4-4
  • Stanford, 3-9/1-8
  • Nebraska, 4-8/3-6
  • Arkansas, 6-6/3-5

So the top-25 from the talent composite makes up 15 of the CFP top-25.  The ten missing from the talent top-25 in the CFP top-25 are:
  • #3 TCU is #32
  • #8 Utah is #33
  • #9 KSU is #70
  • #14 OrSU is #54
  • #18 UCLA is #27
  • #22 MissSt is #29
  • #23 NCST is #37
  • #24 Troy is #98
  • #25 UTSA is #78


Yes, there are a few teams that over-perform.  The most striking example is TCU which is #32 in talent and has a Playoff berth.  

Also, there are a few teams that under-perform.  The most glaring example is aTm which has playoff caliber talent and is sub .500.  

Some people might question Bama because they are #1 in talent and missed the CFP but I think that is silly because it isn't like they suck, they are the first team out.  

CCG's:
ACC:
Clemson was the #1 and UNC was the #3 most talented team in the ACC.  Clemson beat UNC in the CG.  

B12:
TCU was the #3 and KSU was the #9 most talented team in the B12.  KSU beat TCU in the CG.  I'll also point out that #1 Texas has underachieved for well over a decade and #2 Oklahoma was in coaching transition this year.  

B1G:
Michigan was the #2 and Purdue was the #12 most talented team in the B1G.  Michigan beat Purdue in the CG.  Purdue is the real outlier here as they were only #6 even in the B1G-W so kudos to them.  

P12:
USC was the #2 and Utah was the #6 most talented team in the P12.  Utah beat USC in the CG.  USC got there outright, Utah won a three way-tie with #1 Oregon and #3 Washington.  

SEC:
UGA was the #2 and LSU was the #4 most talented team in the SEC.  UGA beat LSU in the CG.  Interestingly, UGA was the most talented team in their division but LSU was only third in theirs behind #1 Bama and #3 aTm.  


rolltidefan

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Re: For those who think recruiting doesn't matter or 5* aren't
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2022, 12:18:13 PM »
jmo, but the record/ranking, or whatever measurement you want to use also needs to be an over time measurement like the rankings.

for any spot year, you're going to have some pretty wild anomalies. whether due to injuries, transfers, bad coaching, bad luck, or just a plain old down year, or the reciprocal of any/all those.

i could be wrong, but i'd wager a small amount that over time, most would slot in somewhere near their recruiting rank. be curious to see it anyway, but i ain't got time to run the numbers.

Cincydawg

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Re: For those who think recruiting doesn't matter or 5* aren't
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2022, 12:19:26 PM »
And at times, schedule can be your friend (or enemy).  But there is a clear correlation here.

FearlessF

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Re: For those who think recruiting doesn't matter or 5* aren't
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2022, 02:09:49 PM »
#9 KSU is #70

bang for your buck here

do these numbers reflect transfers such as Adrian Martinez and Cade Warner from Nebraska to the Little Apple?
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Mdot21

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Re: For those who think recruiting doesn't matter or 5* aren't
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2022, 02:12:48 PM »
oh it definitely matters. JJ was a massive upgrade over Cade....JJ was a 5*. Donovan Edwards is the best player on their offense all due respect to Courm. DE was a 5*. True frosh CB Will Johnson made two huge INTs vs Purdue in the B1G CCG that helped swing the game and let Michigan pull away. Will was a 5*. True frosh TE Colston Loveland who made couple huge plays back to back weeks was a high 4* and is the highest rated TE recruit on the team.

'Crootin' definitely matters.

utee94

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Re: For those who think recruiting doesn't matter or 5* aren't
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2022, 02:15:06 PM »
I see that 6 of the top 10 "most talented" rank well outside the top 10 for on-field results.

That tells me something else matters...

Mdot21

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Re: For those who think recruiting doesn't matter or 5* aren't
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2022, 02:18:33 PM »
I see that 6 of the top 10 "most talented" rank well outside the top 10 for on-field results.

That tells me something else matters...
yup. coaching and development will always be paramount. but you need the 5*'s and 4*'s sprinkled in their as well to be reaaaaallly good. 

FearlessF

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Re: For those who think recruiting doesn't matter or 5* aren't
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2022, 02:31:04 PM »
coaching and developing 4's and 5's REALLY helps
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: For those who think recruiting doesn't matter or 5* aren't
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2022, 02:32:22 PM »
I see that 6 of the top 10 "most talented" rank well outside the top 10 for on-field results.

That tells me something else matters...
Yes there are obviously other things that matter but I wouldn't say that six rank "well outside" the top-10. Oregon (#15), LSU (#17), your Longhorns (#20), and Notre Dame (#21) aren't THAT far off and:
  • One of Oregon's losses was to #2 in talent UGA and another was to #20 Washington.
  • LSU's losses were to teams ranked #2, #4, #17, and #19 in talent
  • One of Texas' losses was to #1 in talent Bama
  • One of Notre Dame's losses was to #3 in talent tOSU.


FearlessF

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Re: For those who think recruiting doesn't matter or 5* aren't
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2022, 02:34:30 PM »
  • One of Texas' losses was to #1 in talent Bama
  • One of Notre Dame's losses was to #3 in talent tOSU.


explain the other losses
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: For those who think recruiting doesn't matter or 5* aren't
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2022, 02:43:20 PM »
explain the other losses
Eh, $h!t happens. We all know the best team doesn't always win. In the B1G-W Purdue beat Illinois who beat both Iowa and Wisconsin and yet the Hawkeyes and Badgers both beat Purdue. 

utee94

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Re: For those who think recruiting doesn't matter or 5* aren't
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2022, 02:48:50 PM »
Yes there are obviously other things that matter but I wouldn't say that six rank "well outside" the top-10. Oregon (#15), LSU (#17), your Longhorns (#20), and Notre Dame (#21) aren't THAT far off and:
  • One of Oregon's losses was to #2 in talent UGA and another was to #20 Washington.
  • LSU's losses were to teams ranked #2, #4, #17, and #19 in talent
  • One of Texas' losses was to #1 in talent Bama
  • One of Notre Dame's losses was to #3 in talent tOSU.



Oregon's 8 spots below their "talent."  LSU is 7 spots below.  Texas is 14 spots below.  Those are significant.  Over half the top 10 in "talent" is achieving on-field results that are at least 7 spots below their "talent level."

Over half the top 10.

Like I said, these stats are proof to me, that something else matters, more than talent.

Are you going to get elite results without elite talent?  It's highly doubtful.

But given similar levels of elite talent, there's another factor that comes in as being much more important.  Seeing as my school is one of the perennial under-achievers, I know first-hand, and I don't have to guess what that other factor is.

Mdot21

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Re: For those who think recruiting doesn't matter or 5* aren't
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2022, 02:53:54 PM »
explain the other losses
explain all of A&M's losses too lol

rolltidefan

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Re: For those who think recruiting doesn't matter or 5* aren't
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2022, 03:21:10 PM »
explain all of A&M's losses too lol
when this passes as "tradition", well...


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