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Topic: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost

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bayareabadger

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #98 on: November 10, 2020, 11:16:53 AM »
Which teams with five were consistently good during their 15 year stretch?

I.e. If a team struggled through four coaches before finding a good one, I don't consider that an example of a "good team with 5 coaches in 15 years" just because they're good at the end of it.

OSU is a great example of maintaining program success through multiple coaching changes, but even then it's only 4.
I mean, it depends what "consistently good" means.

Miami missed 1-2 bowls in 15 years, with a bowl ban thrown in there at some point (they missed three bowls, but I don't know if not going at 6-6 was a ban or not). The worst coach of the bunch went 28-22.

If a team is consistently good, the only way it gets to five is being a mid-major and getting dudes plucked, which is a different deal. 

Cincydawg

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #99 on: November 10, 2020, 11:16:56 AM »
My physical therapist is a big Michigan fan, I asked her about JH.  She lit up, "HE HAS TO GO!!!!!".  She went on at length about failure to make in game adjustments on defense, it was fascinating.  I was just there, she likes football a lot.

I'm not following GaTech at all this year other than I saw the record blow out by Clemson.  I was musing about going to a game, maybe not.


Cincydawg

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #100 on: November 10, 2020, 11:17:59 AM »
"Consistently good" means good enough not to fire your coach.


Circular logic ...

FearlessF

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #101 on: November 10, 2020, 11:28:34 AM »
Miami? Nebraska?
that was before MDOT was born
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Mdot21

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #102 on: November 10, 2020, 11:45:07 AM »
Are we talking about Jim?

I think you can't lose to bad MSU and IU in the same season. Plus the year ends with a whipping by OSU. And you have to beat UW and PSU to stay above .500 in the regular season? Toast.
This.

Mdot21

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #103 on: November 10, 2020, 11:51:55 AM »
Miami? Nebraska?
Not sure I'd consider Schnellenberger an all-time great coach, even though he built Miami into what it was. Schnellberger only had 1 truly great season at Miami and then he immediately left, and his record at Louisville, Oklahoma, and FAU was terrible. 

Nebraska is an interesting case. Osborne became an all-time great- he wasn't one when he took the Nebraska job- and it took him almost a decade to breakthrough at Nebraska, and then it took him another decade to really breakthrough into something truly dominant when they won those 3 titles in a 4 year span. 

Tressel was a HOF elite coach when he got the boot, and the guy who replaced him was already one of the all-time greats and Meyer just continued to do Urban Meyer things once he got to OSU. 

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #104 on: November 10, 2020, 11:59:10 AM »
Cindy's worst coach was Tubbs, and even he managed to muster a Conference Title.

Dino was the only one that didn't, and he turned out ok.
Agreed. I was responding to BAB who mentioned Cinci, but then followed up with "leaving out mid-majors who can be easily plucked". 

I think it's definitely possible for mid-majors to do that if they've got good management at the top, because if you show promise there you're not being replaced because you got fired, it's because you took a bigger job. Boise State had that going for a number of years too, but I don't recall how many in a row over how long. 

From the P5 group, however, I don't think it's very common to replace that many coaches over that time period and maintain success. Unless they're going to the NFL, they're not being "plucked", and there just aren't that many NCAA HC -> NFL HC moves each year, so to cluster that many in one team is rare. 

In the P5, if you're looking at an average tenure of 3-4 years (allowing 12 years of 4-year coaches and two potentially longer term coaches as bookends for your 15 years), it's rare that those 3-4 year coaches in the middle of that sandwich are very productive, or they'd not get bounced that quickly. 

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #105 on: November 10, 2020, 12:07:07 PM »
"Consistently good" means good enough not to fire your coach*.


Circular logic ...
Exactly. 

Although I'd almost give a caveat there---good enough not to fire your coach for on-field performance. 

Thinking, for example, of Claeys at Minnesota. Was doing great, and fired for non-performance reasons. Maybe even Pelini. While ostensibly he was fired because 9-win seasons "aren't good enough" at Nebraska, his firing IMHO was a coupling of 20% performance, 80% being an asshole and pissing off everyone in Lincoln. 

Hence Miami. Miami can make a credible argument of having several consecutive coaches who underachieved, performance-wise, given their recruiting and expectations. So even if they're 6-6 or better and making bowls, that might not be "consistently good" enough at Miami.

I.e. Matt Painter at Purdue is a coach that we really like, and we believe he's an excellent coach and producing consistenly good results. Those results at Duke would get him fired.

Mdot21

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #106 on: November 10, 2020, 12:57:38 PM »
Hence Miami. Miami can make a credible argument of having several consecutive coaches who underachieved, performance-wise, given their recruiting and expectations. So even if they're 6-6 or better and making bowls, that might not be "consistently good" enough at Miami.
Miami is a weird one. It's a small private school, it's not even located in the city of Miami- it's in an uppity rich city- Coral Gables- they don't have an on campus stadium- the play at an NFL teams stadium 25 miles away in Miami Gardens, and the fan base is basically zilch. There is so much going on in South Florida, and there are so many transplants to South Florida- nobody really gives a shit about U of Miami football like they do in say Alabama, OSU, Michigan, FSU, Florida- or any other football crazed college town/area.

What made Miami special was they were completely locking down South Florida recruits- which has some of the most elite football talent in the entire country. Now it's almost more rare for those guys to go to Miami than it is for them to go out of state. Look at all the elite kids from South Florida that have gone elsewhere. It's insane.

I don't think Miami can ever comeback if you ask me. They hit a short little window- and hit it big- and now their run is over imo.

847badgerfan

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #107 on: November 10, 2020, 01:31:04 PM »
I think the same could be happening to FSU.

UW is beating them for some recruits. When did you ever think that would happen?
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #108 on: November 10, 2020, 01:32:39 PM »

What made Miami special was they were completely locking down South Florida recruits- which has some of the most elite football talent in the entire country. 
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #109 on: November 10, 2020, 01:36:55 PM »
I think the same could be happening to FSU.

UW is beating them for some recruits. When did you ever think that would happen?
all it will take for Miami and FSU is the right coach
the coach that can recruit - lockdown all of that Florida talent
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Mdot21

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #110 on: November 10, 2020, 01:40:01 PM »
all it will take for Miami and FSU is the right coach
the coach that can recruit - lockdown all of that Florida talent
Miami will be difficult imo. Agree with you on FSU. It's a really neat college town with a die-hard fanbase. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: #FireHarbaugh
« Reply #111 on: November 10, 2020, 01:40:31 PM »
No one's ever done that, lol.  All the FL talent would fill 5 big-boy teams.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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