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Topic: FIRE HARBAUGH

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #210 on: November 04, 2021, 05:52:15 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on November 04, 2021, 04:02:24 PM

Personally, I think that @Cincydawg 's two per decade is reasonable.  @betarhoalphadelta came up with 2.6 but I think he is a little high for two reasons:
  • I don't think he is giving PSU enough credit.  Long-term I think they are in a great recruiting situation as the NE-most "helmet" and should be every bit as good as Michigan and possibly as good as
  • Ohio State.  Beta said that tOSU and Michigan should win 7/10 B1G-E titles then just allocated that 50/50.  I'm not seeing that.  Absolute legend Bo only broke even with Ohio State and I can throw in all kinds of qualifiers.  For one thing, Bo was 2-4-1 against Woody in his first seven years before winning three straight against the Buckeyes in Woody's last three years.  I think that post-1975 was post-peak Woody.  I think Earle was a good coach but hardly great, and then Bo got to coach against Cooper who was absolutely phenomenal for all but the last two games of the season where he was complete crap.  The Cooper factor is huge here.  As I showed above, no Michigan coach has done better than .500 against non-Cooper tOSU teams in almost 80 years.  I'm not saying that I expect tOSU's recent dominance to continue forever but even if you take just one game per decade away from Michigan that likely drops their division titles from 3.5 to 2.5 and their league titles from 2.6 to 1.9 (using Beta's logic otherwise). 


Yeah, I'm not giving PSU much credit, but I think that's fair given what we've seen since they came into the league.

  • 1993-2020 is 28 years, and they amassed 4 conference titles in that time. That's a little less than 1.5 per decade.
  • Since division play started (2011), they've won the Leaders division once and won the East/B1GCCG once. So that's winning the division twice in the last decade.
  • Their Leaders division title occurred in 2011, the year Fickell was the interim coach. So it relied on OSU having a down year. That was also part of the Brady Hoke era at Michigan, so it was admittedly a down coaching cycle for Michigan. 
  • In the 247 composite football rankings for 2021, Ohio State is 2nd nationally, Michigan is 13th, and Penn State is 21st. So they're not at the same talent level as the other two, despite being a helmet.

I think PSU and Nebraska are good teams, but I don't necessarily know that they're going to continue to keep their helmet quite as shiny as OSU and Michigan.

Regarding my head-to-head discussion of Michigan and Ohio State, I do agree that this is not historically 50/50. I was trying to look at it through the prism of a biased Michigan fan, though :57:



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Cincydawg

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #211 on: November 04, 2021, 05:57:58 PM »
If they need to win 3 or more conference titles a decade, I don't think any coach can do that there, I can be wrong of course.  Two sounds to me like a reasonable objecive and metric, to me.
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Mdot21

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #212 on: November 04, 2021, 05:59:31 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on November 04, 2021, 05:57:58 PM
If they need to win 3 or more conference titles a decade, I don't think any coach can do that there, I can be wrong of course.  Two sounds to me like a reasonable objecive and metric, to me.
This is a stupid ass statement. 

You don't think Nick Saban or Urban Meyer could win 3 or more conference titles at Michigan in a decade? Cause I sure as hell do. 

3 a decade minimum should be the standard to keep your ass in that job. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #213 on: November 04, 2021, 06:09:25 PM »
It's my OPINION.  Maybe it is stupid.  Michigan is not Ohio State in my view, not even close.

If that is the bar, I'm 99% confident they will fire coach after coach after coach.
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FearlessF

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #214 on: November 04, 2021, 06:13:54 PM »
with the right coach in Ann Arbor and the right coach in Columbus, Michigan could win the Big Ten 4 or 5 times per decade

but, that's a long shot at the moment

Michigan would need to hire "that" guy and either Day would have to under-perform or move on for one reason or another
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Mdot21

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #215 on: November 04, 2021, 06:17:47 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on November 04, 2021, 06:09:25 PM
It's my OPINION.  Maybe it is stupid.  Michigan is not Ohio State in my view, not even close.

If that is the bar, I'm 99% confident they will fire coach after coach after coach.
Yeah, great observation. Except there is nothing in your opinion which supports your stupid argument that Michigan should just expect to lose to Ohio State forever and not try to win the B1G title more than once a decade.

Michigan is 58-51-6 vs Ohio State all-time.

From 1969-2007- nearly 30 years from the Bo Schembechler to Lloyd Carr eras- Michigan was 20-17-2 vs Ohio State.

And it's been ALL downhill since. 1-11. Jim Tressel turned the tide in this series, Urban ratcheted it up, and Ryan Day is keeping it going vs Jim The Retard.

Time to say bye bye to CTE stricken autistic moron and get a new head coach in there who has one goal- beat Ohio State.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #216 on: November 04, 2021, 06:22:59 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on November 04, 2021, 06:09:25 PM
It's my OPINION.  Maybe it is stupid.  Michigan is not Ohio State in my view, not even close.

If that is the bar, I'm 99% confident they will fire coach after coach after coach.
So they have become the Big Ten's Mississippi State, where they just expect to be like Bama unrealistically?

I like it.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #217 on: November 04, 2021, 06:25:54 PM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 04, 2021, 05:52:15 PM
Regarding my head-to-head discussion of Michigan and Ohio State, I do agree that this is not historically 50/50. I was trying to look at it through the prism of a biased Michigan fan, though :57:
Quote from: Mdot21 on November 04, 2021, 06:17:47 PM
Yeah, great observation. Except there is nothing in your opinion which supports your stupid argument that Michigan should just expect to lose to Ohio State forever and not try to win the B1G title more than once a decade.

Michigan is 58-51-6 vs Ohio State all-time.

From 1969-2007- nearly 30 years from the Bo Schembechler to Lloyd Carr eras- Michigan was 20-17-2 vs Ohio State.

And it's been ALL downhill since. 1-11. Jim Tressel turned the tide in this series, Urban ratcheted it up, and Ryan Day is keeping it going vs Jim The Retard.

Time to say bye bye to CTE stricken autistic moron and get a new head coach in there who has one goal- beat Ohio State.
See?
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Cincydawg

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #218 on: November 04, 2021, 06:26:33 PM »
Ole Miss won the SEC fairly often a LONG time ago, that doesn't mean anything today.  Tennessee won the SEC pretty often as well, and only 20 some years ago.  That dosn't mean anything either.  If Tennessee fans expect Huepel to win the SEC three times or more in a decade, they will continue their coaching cycling.

And it is possible my expectations for UM are too low.
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MrNubbz

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #219 on: November 04, 2021, 09:23:37 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on November 04, 2021, 06:17:47 PM
Yeah, great observation. Except there is nothing in your opinion which supports your stupid argument that Michigan should just expect to lose to Ohio State forever and not try to win the B1G title more than once a decade.

Michigan is 58-51-6 vs Ohio State all-time.
When Fielding Yost was playing Stevedores and the Flying Wedge was the rage 120 yrs ago isn't applicable
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #220 on: November 04, 2021, 10:18:29 PM »
The Big Ten became the Big Ten in 1953.  How many times has Michigan won 5 outright Big Ten championships in a 10-year span? 
Once.
1988-1997.
The fun part about that?  It occurred under 3 different HCs, lol.

.
They love sharing, though.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2021, 11:04:24 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
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FearlessF

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #221 on: November 04, 2021, 10:21:40 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2021, 10:18:29 PM
The Big Ten became the Big Ten in 1953.  
until it became the big 11 in 1990
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #222 on: November 04, 2021, 10:26:34 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2021, 10:18:29 PM
The Big Ten became the Big Ten in 1953.  How many times has Michigan won 5 outright Big Ten championships in a 10-year span? 
Once.
1988-1997.
The fun part about that?  It occurred under 3 different HCs, lol.

.
They love sharing, though.
Aka, the John Cooper era
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FearlessF

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #223 on: November 04, 2021, 10:55:32 PM »
and then, Coop was fired!
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