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Topic: FIRE HARBAUGH

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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #168 on: November 03, 2021, 08:55:18 PM »
Yeah, the others all know their place. 

Bloody Purdue...
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Cincydawg

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #169 on: November 03, 2021, 10:11:50 PM »
I don't know what Michigan fans want, the real fans, not the clowns.  One league title a decade?  That strikes me as rational.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #170 on: November 03, 2021, 10:32:07 PM »
I'd imagine that they'd like to do a little bit better than that.

3 or 4 maybe? I dunno.
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FearlessF

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #171 on: November 03, 2021, 10:45:10 PM »
they'd like to be 50% vs Ohio St and 75% vs Michigan St

that would be a good start, then they could get really greedy
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"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Mdot21

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #172 on: November 04, 2021, 10:32:07 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on November 03, 2021, 10:11:50 PM
I don't know what Michigan fans want, the real fans, not the clowns.  One league title a decade?  That strikes me as rational.
You're f**king joking, right? That is not rational. At all.

Bo Schembechler won 13 league titles in his 21 years at Michigan. Michigan last won 3 B1G titles in a row and they haven't won a B1G title since 2004. That's SEVENTEEN years.

Michigan is 4-10 vs Michigan State in the last 14 games.

Michigan is about to be 2-18 vs Ohio State in the last 20 games.

This is NOT acceptable, period. Michigan should be winning the B1G title every few years, they should be dominating Michigan State, and they should at least able to hold serve with Ohio State. THAT is and always has been the expectation at Michigan.
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Cincydawg

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #173 on: November 04, 2021, 10:37:40 AM »
There are not split titles these days.  To win the B1G East means you need to go 8-1 pretty much AND beat Ohio State, and THEN win the CG.  If expectations are that Michigan should win 3-4 league titles in a decade, well, good luck with that.

One title a decade to me sounds rational, as an expectation, and two a decade sounds OK to me.  Over that I personally find irrational.
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Mdot21

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #174 on: November 04, 2021, 10:40:59 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on November 04, 2021, 10:37:40 AM
There are not split titles these days.  To win the B1G East means you need to go 8-1 pretty much AND beat Ohio State, and THEN win the CG.  If expectations are that Michigan should win 3-4 league titles in a decade, well, good luck with that.

One title a decade to me sounds rational, as an expectation, and two a decade sounds OK to me.  Over that I personally find irrational.
Nah. The B1G today is same as it was back then when it was Big 2 Little 8. YOU HAVE TO BEAT OHIO STATE TO WIN IT. B1G TITLE GOES THROUGH OHIO STATE. Period. 

Michigan has not been able to beat Ohio State for jackshit- and they have now been struggling with their in-state rival whom they used to dominate. Go look at the records in the 70s, 80's, 90s, early 2000s. Michigan State might've beaten Michigan one a decade. Now Michigan is lucky to beat Michigan State more than a few times every decade and a half.

Michigan has NOT been performing against it's main rivals. Harbaugh was brought on to remedy that situation. He is incapable of remedying it, therefore he must go.
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Mdot21

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #175 on: November 04, 2021, 10:53:16 AM »
it's really this simple, if you're at Michigan you're paid to dominate Michigan State and you're paid to win at least half your games vs Ohio State.

Group 1
Bo Schembechler - 11-9-1 vs Ohio State, 17-4 vs Michigan State
Gary Moeller - 3-1-1 vs Ohio State, 3-2 vs Michigan State
Lloyd Carr - 6-7 vs Ohio State, 10-3 vs Michigan State

Group 2
RichRod - 0-3 vs Ohio State, 0-3 vs Michigan State
Brady Hoke - 1-3 vs Ohio State, 1-3 vs Michigan State
Jim Harbaugh - 0-6 vs Ohio State, 3-4 vs Michigan State (0-2 to MSU new stud coach)


One of these groups is not like the other.
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MrNubbz

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #176 on: November 04, 2021, 10:53:33 AM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on November 04, 2021, 10:40:59 AM
Michigan has NOT been performing against it's main rivals. Harbaugh was brought on to remedy that situation. He is incapable of remedying it, therefore he must go.
Agreed the answer is out there might as well start your search.Sparty picked up mel on a reach and in a pinch
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MrNubbz

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #177 on: November 04, 2021, 10:56:05 AM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on November 04, 2021, 10:53:16 AM
it's really this simple, if you're at Michigan you're paid to dominate Michigan State and you're paid to win at least half your games vs Ohio State.

Group 1
Bo Schembechler - 11-9-1 vs Ohio State, 17-4 vs Michigan State
Gary Moeller - 3-1-1 vs Ohio State, 3-2 vs Michigan State
Lloyd Carr - 6-7 vs Ohio State, 10-3 vs Michigan State

Your Michigan numbers are staggered however as both Woody and Earle had winning records against UM.Bo won 1 more game vs Woody but Earle won i more game vs Bo.Then Cooper,then Tress/Urbz
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Mdot21

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #178 on: November 04, 2021, 10:58:16 AM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on November 04, 2021, 10:56:05 AM
Your Michigan numbers are staggered however as both Woody and Earle had winning records aginst UM.Bo won 1 more game vs Woody but Earle won i more game vs Bo.Then Cooper,then Tress/Urbz
was not comparing overall record of coaches vs coaches, was showing the coaches records vs teams. Michigan has had 6 coaches since 1969-present. 

Bo won more than he lost vs Ohio State and dominated MSU. 

Moeller did better vs OSU than he did vs MSU- but was ahead of both.

Carr was just under .500 vs OSU but he absolutely dominated MSU.

While Michigan's last 3 coaches have all been god awful vs both MSU and OSU.
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Mdot21

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #179 on: November 04, 2021, 11:12:16 AM »
guys I would be looking at...in no order...

Joe Brady
Dave Aranda 
Jim Leonhard 
Luke Fickell
Bill O'Brien
Tony Alford 
Ken Dorsey 
Brian Daboll
Kellen Moore
Kevin O'Connell 
Dan Lanning 

Interview 50+ guys, leave no stone unturned. 
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #180 on: November 04, 2021, 11:25:19 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on November 04, 2021, 10:37:40 AM
There are not split titles these days.  To win the B1G East means you need to go 8-1 pretty much AND beat Ohio State, and THEN win the CG.  If expectations are that Michigan should win 3-4 league titles in a decade, well, good luck with that.

One title a decade to me sounds rational, as an expectation, and two a decade sounds OK to me.  Over that I personally find irrational.
Quote from: Mdot21 on November 04, 2021, 10:40:59 AM
Nah. The B1G today is same as it was back then when it was Big 2 Little 8. YOU HAVE TO BEAT OHIO STATE TO WIN IT. B1G TITLE GOES THROUGH OHIO STATE. Period.

Michigan has not been able to beat Ohio State for jackshit- and they have now been struggling with their in-state rival whom they used to dominate. Go look at the records in the 70s, 80's, 90s, early 2000s. Michigan State might've beaten Michigan one a decade. Now Michigan is lucky to beat Michigan State more than a few times every decade and a half.

Michigan has NOT been performing against it's main rivals. Harbaugh was brought on to remedy that situation. He is incapable of remedying it, therefore he must go.

I agree with Mdot here. Michigan and Ohio State are still the cream of the crop in the conference. I think you should pretty much expect them to win the East 7 out of 10 years, possibly more.

Michigan should be able to be somewhere in the range of .500 against OSU to be able to say they're holding up their end of the rivalry. That's 3.5 division titles per decade.

The East should be able to beat the West in the CCG in the current configuration at IMHO a 75% clip in the 7 of 10 years where M or OSU wins (if it's a broken year and it's PSU or MSU it's a much more even matchup). 

75% of 3.5 is a little over 2.6 titles per decade.

Two per decade would seem to be a little bit of a letdown but acceptable for a team like Michigan. 3+ is gravy. 

One per decade, when you're the University of Michigan football team, means that you're not living up to your shiny helmet.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: FIRE HARBAUGH
« Reply #181 on: November 04, 2021, 11:35:02 AM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on November 04, 2021, 10:58:16 AM
was not comparing overall record of coaches vs coaches, was showing the coaches records vs teams. Michigan has had 6 coaches since 1969-present.

Bo won more than he lost vs Ohio State and dominated MSU.

Moeller did better vs OSU than he did vs MSU- but was ahead of both.

Carr was just under .500 vs OSU but he absolutely dominated MSU.

While Michigan's last 3 coaches have all been god awful vs both MSU and OSU.
If Michigan is going to fire coaches for not winning, as you put it, "more than half" against Ohio State then you are going to fire a LOT of coaches.  

The only coaches in modern Michigan history with winning records against Ohio State have those records ONLY because they were fortunate enough to coach against John Cooper.  Here is your list:
Quote from: Mdot21 on November 04, 2021, 10:53:16 AM
Group 1
Bo Schembechler - 11-9-1 vs Ohio State, 17-4 vs Michigan State
Gary Moeller - 3-1-1 vs Ohio State, 3-2 vs Michigan State
Lloyd Carr - 6-7 vs Ohio State, 10-3 vs Michigan State
  • Bo Schembechler, an absolute LEGEND at Michigan, was 5-4-1 against Woody and 4-5 against Earle so in his first 19 years at Michigan he was exactly .500 at 9-9-1.  This is a guy who is an absolute LEGEND at Michigan and he didn't win "more than half" of his games against Ohio State until Cooper was brought on in Columbus and he wan his last two to finish with an 11-9-1 record against the Buckeyes.  
  • Gary Moeller was 3-1-1 all against Cooper.  
  • Lloyd Carr was 5-1 against Cooper then 1-6 against Tresssel.  
You already listed the records for Rodriguez, Hoke, and Harbaugh:
Quote from: Mdot21 on November 04, 2021, 10:53:16 AM
Group 2
RichRod - 0-3 vs Ohio State, 0-3 vs Michigan State
Brady Hoke - 1-3 vs Ohio State, 1-3 vs Michigan State
Jim Harbaugh - 0-6 vs Ohio State, 3-4 vs Michigan State (0-2 to MSU new stud coach)
That is all six Michigan Coaches since 1969 and none of them had a winning record against Ohio State teams not coached by John Cooper.  What about before Schembechler?  Well:
  • Bump Elliott coached Michigan from 1959-1968 and went 3-7 against the Buckeyes.  
  • Bennie Ooseterbaan coached Michigan from 1948-1958 and went 5-5-1 against the Buckeyes, .500 same as Bo pre-Cooper.  
  • Fritz Crisler coached Michigan from 1938-1947 and went 7-2-1 against the Buckeyes.  

The last Michigan coach to have a winning record against Ohio State teams not coached by John Cooper:
  • was born in the 19th century
  • was hired during the depression
  • coached Michigan through WWII
  • got lucky in that Ohio State's fantastic young coach in the early 1940's was drafted into the Army
  • coached his last Michigan game more than 70 years ago on January 1, 1948
  • died almost 40 years ago in 1982.  


Aside from Cooper's tenure in Columbus the Wolverines haven't consistently won "more than half" of their games against Ohio State since before the Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor.  That was 80 years ago next month.  
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