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Topic: Federal Debt and Deficit

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Gigem

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #448 on: July 22, 2025, 10:27:17 AM »
The SHO version was pretty sweet back in the day. 
Most people won't remember this, but it had a Yamaha motor.  Never rode in one. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #449 on: July 22, 2025, 10:34:37 AM »
A massive military won't be of much help if the country is bankrupt.  Generous spending on social issues won't be possible then.  

We're talking $2 trillion a year deficits, roughly, with no end in sight.  We could start seeing various agencies like insurance companies and annuities and foreign governments no longer investing in T bonds.  Interest rates rise, the Fed can't do much to assist beyond QE Infinity, interest rates rise more, faith is diminished, inflation jumps to 20-30% a year ... spiraling down without a remedy.

Cincydawg

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #450 on: July 22, 2025, 10:41:41 AM »

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #451 on: July 22, 2025, 10:56:10 AM »
Most people won't remember this, but it had a Yamaha motor.  Never rode in one.
A friend owned one. They were really fast for a four door sedan of that era.

FearlessF

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #452 on: July 26, 2025, 01:46:06 PM »
(NewsNation) – Americans looking to chip in to pay off the country’s debt can now do so via Venmo.

The U.S. Department of the Treasury is making headlines after a social media post from an NPR reporter revealed the department had added Venmo as a payment option through its “Gifts to Reduce the Public Debt” program.

The program has been around since 1961 and, according to Axios, roughly $67.3 million has been donated since 1996. The page caps donations at $999,999.99.

But given that country’s debt is nearly $37 trillion, economists say the page is more of a symbolic gesture than a solution. According to the U.S. Congress Joint Economic Committee, the total national debt has grown by nearly $55,000 per second for the past year.

“I don’t see it as clever, I see it as maybe desperate. But I just don’t see it as something that is going to be viable all around. I think it’s a massive distraction,” Shawn French, host and founder of “The Determined Society” podcast, said. “But I think it’s also a last-ditch effort for people to say, hey, well, we tried.”

Even if every American donated $1,000 today, those donations would barely make a dent in the country’s debt.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #453 on: August 04, 2025, 07:27:28 AM »
This is really criminal, predictable, was predicted in fact, an obvious enormous problem with no practicable solution.

utee94

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #454 on: August 04, 2025, 10:20:36 AM »
I'd consider chipping in extra to pay down the debt, but not until the budget is balanced.  In fact, not until laws are passed to make it mandatory that the budget be balanced.



Cincydawg

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #455 on: August 04, 2025, 10:24:33 AM »
I figure anything saying the budget "has to be balanced" would have to have some emergency caveat in it, that would be used without mercy.

utee94

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #456 on: August 04, 2025, 10:30:40 AM »
I figure anything saying the budget "has to be balanced" would have to have some emergency caveat in it, that would be used without mercy.
Probably so, hence the origin and continuation of our problem.

FearlessF

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #457 on: August 04, 2025, 10:53:24 AM »
it seems to work in some states
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #458 on: August 04, 2025, 11:12:13 AM »
Nearly all states have a BB requirement, 49 last I checked.  None of them face potential national emergencies, like say WW 2.

A lot of them balance their budgets with smoke and mirrors anyway.

FearlessF

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #459 on: August 04, 2025, 11:34:34 AM »
the national government hasn't faced anything like WWII since WWII
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #460 on: August 04, 2025, 12:20:33 PM »
Nearly all states have a BB requirement, 49 last I checked.  None of them face potential national emergencies, like say WW 2.

A lot of them balance their budgets with smoke and mirrors anyway.
This is an area in which I have a lot of expertise (at least vis-a-vis Ohio law) so I'll explain how it works here and what some difficulties of making that work nationally would be:

Interesting side-note first:
That State level balanced budget requirements came about due to the Canal building boom after construction of the Erie Canal.  The State of New York built the Erie Canal in the early 1800s.  The canal cost a massive (at the time) amount of money but it was an incredible success.  It was so successful that revenues from the canal paid off the bonds in just a few years.  

They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and there was a LOT of flattery after the success that New York had with the Erie Canal.  A slew of states borrowed heavily to invest in canals thinking that they could duplicate the massive success of the Erie Canal but there were two major problems:
  • The Erie Canal was as successful as it was because it didn't just serve the area adjacent to the canal.  The canal from Buffalo to Albany didn't just serve the Buffalo area, instead it effectively served the entire shoreline of Lakes Erie, Huron, Michigan, and Superior along with the various other rivers flowing into those lakes.  Furthermore, once the success of the Erie Canal became apparent the states of Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota built canals that fed into those lakes and thus further expanded the area served by the Erie Canal.  The Erie Canal effective served as the commercial link between that entire area and the global economy and everything bought or sold by people in that entire area travelled through it.  
  • The Erie Canal opened in 1825.  It was officially completed on October 26, 1825.  Just under one month earlier the Stockton and Darlington Railway became the first public railway using steam locomotives.  Canals were largely supplanted by Railroads.  
Several states nearly went bankrupt because they spent humongous amounts of money to build canals that they thought they would need to stay economically competitive and then ended up with far fewer customers than projected because Rail Transport was a better commercial option for most applications.  

Ohio's Budgetary Law for local government not the state itself but that is similar (note that this is a condensed version):
  • The local Government's chief financial official (usually the Auditor, Finance Director, or Clerk-Treasurer) has to provide a revenue estimate by a date prescribed by statute.  
  • The local official's revenue estimate is then submitted to the County Budget Commission (in most Counties this is made up of the County Auditor, County Treasurer, and County Prosecutor).  The Budget Commission reviews the estimate and produces a "Original Certificate of Estimated Resources".  The Certificate of Estimated Resources includes revenues and estimated beginning balances.  
  • The local legislature is statutorily prohibited from approving appropriations in excess of the amount listed on either the "Original Certificate of Estimated Resources" or (if applicable), the most current "Amended Official Certificate of Estimated Resources".  Amendments are by request and reviewed by the County Budget Commission.  In some circumstances amendments are mandatory.  The Chief Financial Officer of each government is responsible for maintaining the estimate so if revenues tank due to a recession, plant closure, COVID, or whatever, that Chief Financial Official is required to notify the Budget Commission and get the Certificate updated.  
  • The local administration is prohibited from spending money in excess of appropriations.  

This process provides checks and balances.  If the local CFO simply juices the estimate to make it look ok, the Budget Commission is responsible to step in and say "no, you are being too optimistic, we are going to tone down your estimate".  If the Legislature ignores the statute and approves appropriations in excess of the Certificate, those appropriations are statutorily invalid.  If the Administration spends in excess of appropriations, they can be held PERSONALLY liable for the unauthorized spending.  


Cincydawg

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #461 on: August 04, 2025, 12:28:57 PM »
How much of a fiscal requirement is off budget, like pension plans (Illinois)?

Since the CA HSR has been such a massive success, should states emulate that and build their own HSR lines?

I read on occasion that some state (usually CA) has some massive budget deficit they HAVE to close.  Do they really balance their budget without smoke and mirrors?

What happens to a state when the economy goes south suddenly and tax receipts come un way under estimates?  I know some have an RD fund for that.


 

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