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Topic: Federal Debt and Deficit

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MrNubbz

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #364 on: July 17, 2025, 10:24:32 AM »
neither side even chirps about the debt much these daze

https://youtu.be/rqk7gorwWAo
"An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out" - Will Rogers

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #365 on: July 17, 2025, 05:50:47 PM »
How much does changing retirement age ease the burden in the current system?  Say we move it back one year from 67 to 68.
I don't have anywhere near enough data to answer this but I can point out a few things:

One advantage of raising the age as opposed to raising the rate is the increasing the age helps you on both sides of the equation.  It decreases the payout by decreasing the number of retirees (because they have to wait longer to collect) AND it increases the receipts by increasing the amount of contributions because the people who continue to work for extra time while awaiting SSI eligibility are contributing longer.  Raising the rate only helps on the revenue side of the equation, not both. 

When the program was established (1937) US Life expectancy was 59.7 (58.0 for men, 62.4 for women) and the retirement age was 65 which was MORE than life expectancy.  To match that we'd have to raise the age today to beyond 80. 

That said, I don't think that makes sense.  Opponents of raising the age point out that quality of life still declines past a certain age and they have a point.  A BIG part of the reason that LE has increased so much is that we have things like antibiotics so basically nobody dies of mumps, scarlet fever, etc anymore.  Those things REALLY pulled down LE because they could kill people in their 30s and 40*s.  However, back then when LE was <60 we did still have some 90 and 100 year olds which is up to 67% beyond LE but today with LE at almost 80 we do NOT have any 133 year olds.  Why?  The reason is that the human body simply wears out at a certain point.  Back before modern medicine if you managed to get lucky and avoid mumps/measles/scarlet fever, etc you could still be a healthy worker at 65 even though that was OVER the existing LE but today there aren't a lot of healthy 85 year old workers. 

Just based on what I've seen in my family (which admittedly is anecdotal) I don't think a retirement age north of about 70 is realistic.  Neither of my parents would have been able to work much past 70 regardless.  My dad's dementia/Alzheimer's started to be noticeable in his early 70s and my mom's general health situation wouldn't have permitted her to work much past 70 either.  I think that is true for a lot of people.  There obviously exceptions who couldn't functionally work much past 50 and exceptions on the other end who could still be clocking in every morning at 85 but those are, IMHO, exceptions not the rule. 


*An example from my family:
I've mentioned my 2-great Grandfather who fought in the Civil War.  His father (my 3-great Grandfather) was born in 1809 and died at 36 years old in 1845.  He died of Scarlet Fever.  Here is the part that interests me, he *should* have lived much longer:
  • 55 - His Grandfather was born in 1751 and died in 1806
  • 69 - His Father outlived him, born in 1780 and died in 1849
  • 36 - He was born in 1809 and died in 1845 of Scarlet Fever
  • 76 - His son was born in 1842, served in the Civil War and lived until 1918
  • 98 - His Grandson (my great-grandfather) was born in 1875 and died in 1973
  • 103 - His Great-Grandaughter (my Grandmother) was born in 1909 and died in 2012
This kind of thing REALLY pulled LE down.  If you just average his father and his son you get 72.5 and he died at HALF that age. 

Note that the average for those six individuals is 73 but if you take out the one who died of Scarlet Fever at 36 the average increases to 80 so it makes a big difference.  
« Last Edit: July 17, 2025, 05:56:33 PM by medinabuckeye1 »

Gigem

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #366 on: July 18, 2025, 07:44:48 AM »
I often wonder if maybe the real reason why cancer rates have skyrocketed over the last ~50-100 years is because people aren't dying from things like scarlett fever and other things that that have been eliminated.  I think there is a stat out there that about 1/3 to 1/2 of children born before 1910 never even made it to adulthood, and certainly I can see this when researching my own family I see a lot of infant mortality and child mortality.  

Cincydawg

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #367 on: July 18, 2025, 07:57:33 AM »
Cancer rates actually have been declining slowly even with better diagnostics. 

Gigem

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #368 on: July 18, 2025, 07:59:55 AM »
Cancer rates actually have been declining slowly even with better diagnostics.
Yeah, but how many of your ancestors from 100+ years ago died from it?  

Cincydawg

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #369 on: July 18, 2025, 08:01:01 AM »
It likely would not be diagnosed of course. That’s my point. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #370 on: July 18, 2025, 08:01:58 AM »
When the retirement age was increased, it did not affect folks nearing retirement age. 

utee94

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #371 on: July 18, 2025, 08:39:13 AM »
Everyone died of "Consumption" back in the day.  Or at least that's what I read in all the girly historical novels.


medinabuckeye1

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #372 on: July 18, 2025, 08:44:28 AM »
I often wonder if maybe the real reason why cancer rates have skyrocketed over the last ~50-100 years is because people aren't dying from things like scarlett fever and other things that that have been eliminated.  I think there is a stat out there that about 1/3 to 1/2 of children born before 1910 never even made it to adulthood, and certainly I can see this when researching my own family I see a lot of infant mortality and child mortality. 
This is definitely true with Alzheimer's.  Within my family:  My dad started showing signs of it in his early/mid 70s and died of it at 80.  His dad didn't get it but that *MIGHT* only be because he died of heart disease at 60 so he simply didn't live long enough to get Alzheimer's.  

Vis-a-vis cancer, it is another one where modern medicine has caused LE to increase considerably.  I know a woman who is about my age who had breast cancer 5-10 years ago, was treated, and appears to be fully cancer-free today.  40-50 years ago beast cancer was an absolute death sentence and she would have died of it long ago.  With modern medicine she survived that.  

In our local old-town cemetery (est in 1818) there are a couple sets of these but one always stands out to me:  It is a group of headstones for a family and there are three children in this family who died within a few days of each other I think it was in the 1820s or 1830s.  I don't know the cause of death but given the time it was probably something like Scarlet Fever or Mumps or Measles.  The whole family got it and those poor parents had to bury three children, can you imagine?  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #373 on: July 18, 2025, 09:18:05 AM »
A question is whether we can/will simply inflate our way out of this debt mess.

We pay it back with dollars worth only 50 cents in today's money.
This, IMHO, is by far the most likely possibility.  

When people in this thread have talked about us hiding behind our military and saying "come and get it" or other forms of default I've just chuckled and ignored it.  Printing money is a lot easier and less of a shock to the system.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #374 on: July 18, 2025, 09:19:44 AM »

Adding 41% to 15.3% gets you to ~21.6%.  
Was this just too scary for anyone to even comment?

Cincydawg

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #375 on: July 18, 2025, 10:21:02 AM »
I was told. There would be no math.  

utee94

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #376 on: July 18, 2025, 10:25:25 AM »


MikeDeTiger

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Re: Federal Debt and Deficit
« Reply #377 on: July 18, 2025, 10:37:48 AM »
Everyone died of "Consumption" back in the day.  Or at least that's what I read in all the girly historical novels.

Incorrect.

Everyone died of dysentery, on the Oregon Trail.  

 

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