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Topic: Electric Vehicle News Items

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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1078 on: November 29, 2023, 09:04:03 AM »
The thing is, projections are still that half the cars on the road by 2050 will be ICE'd, so oil companies have quite a bit of time here to adjust.  But as demand for oil drops, gradually, prices will tend to drop as well, and I think they already are adjusting forecasts for costs for exploration and drilling.

847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1079 on: November 29, 2023, 09:06:19 AM »
By when do you think EVs will be competitive with ICE Vs for your personal needs?

We know the downsides, cost is probably the most relevant (and profitability is a consideration for the mfg).  Imagine you need a smallish car to get to work and back.  You choice is say a Corolla or a comparably sized EV, maybe the Bolt.  That could be the closest comparison.

If you need a truck for towing, this question is probably much further out in the future.  A Ford Flex kind of vehicle or minivan?

My guess is, in broad strokes, 2035, competitive, not necessarily better.
We drive 6-7K miles per year. So probably never. My next purchase could very well be my last purchase.
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FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1080 on: November 29, 2023, 09:13:10 AM »
yup, once I retire I won't be driving many miles.
Unless it's for trips to see family and friends

I suppose in 2035 I could be in the market for my last car.  I'm be around 75 and figure that would last until I'm 85 at least.

It's possible I could choose an electric, but it would be about dollars and sense
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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1081 on: November 29, 2023, 09:18:11 AM »
The problem is those who don't drive much don't benefit much by not buying gasoline.  And as demand for gas gradually ebbs, costs may drop.

I do see a market for delivery vans and maybe work trucks.

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1082 on: November 29, 2023, 09:19:40 AM »
One thing I thought about was buying an EV since we drive in town mostly, and only need an ICE for long trips, so we could rent something the few times that happens.  The math doesn't work now.

And I think the chargers in our building are a bit pricey, probably twice residential power, at least.

FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1083 on: November 29, 2023, 09:20:00 AM »
perhaps by 2035 the cost to build and maintain an EV will be less than a gasser

doubtful, but perhaps
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1084 on: November 29, 2023, 09:46:16 AM »
I'll use my wife as an example. She works in an office, 5 days a week. According to Google Maps, her route is 17 miles each way, so 34 miles a day. Taking out weekends, holidays, vacation days, etc, we'll assume that's 225 work days a year. 

That's already 7.6k miles. I think it's quite easy, given errands and other things she drives to, to extend and say she's probably driving 10k/year. I think it's actually higher than that, but we'll go with $10K.

Her car is a Lexus RX350. According to the current Lexus site, the RX starts at $50K. The RZ (comparable electric) starts at just under $60K. Without building them out to know all the option packages, that's just under a $10K difference. But with the $7500 tax rebate, that's actually going to be $53K, or a $3K difference for comparable vehicles.

So let's say it's an extra $1500 to install the L2 charger in the garage. Now we're at $4.5K.

Right now gas is around $4.50/gal at the Costco here. SoCal Edison has time-of-use rate plans that averaging winter and summer cost is $0.24/kWh overnight. Both are expensive relative to the rest of the country, but hey, it's California.

Based on this calculator, the 5 year savings on fuel cost alone will be a little over $5K. So anything beyond about 4.5 years of ownership is saving money based purely on fuel/electricity costs. 

And that's not counting potential savings on things like maintenance costs, etc. 


847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1085 on: November 29, 2023, 10:08:36 AM »
We don't talk about infrastructure at all, it seems.

These EV's are very heavy.

Parking garages come to mind.
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utee94

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1086 on: November 29, 2023, 10:24:40 AM »
We don't talk about infrastructure at all, it seems.

These EV's are very heavy.

Parking garages come to mind.
Parking garages, bridges, heck just plain old roads, none are built for use by a large amount of EVs.

The I35 overpass bridges in downtown Austin at rush hour are bumper-to-bumper from 7 AM to 9 AM every morning and from 4 PM to 7 PM every night.  Right now the traffic on them is 95% ICE.  What's going to happen when that number gets closer to 50/50?

Any civil/structural engineers around wanna do the math for us? :)

847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1087 on: November 29, 2023, 10:29:28 AM »
I have zero background in structural, so it won't be me. I never even took a structural course, other than the Statics and Strength of Materials that everyone took. And I remember nothing.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1088 on: November 29, 2023, 10:51:04 AM »
According to Google, the Lexus RX curb weight is 4,067 to 4,750 lbs. The Lexus RZ curb weight is 4,564 to 4,619 lbs. Tesla Model Y is in the same range at 4,154 to 4,555 lbs. 

It also has an F-150 ranging from 4,275 to 5,757, and we all know Texas has a few of those rolling around.

For comparison, a Tesla Model 3 is between 3,862 and 4,048, while a comparable midsize sedan (Camry) ranges from 3,310 to 3,595. 



So yes, batteries are heavy, but it's not like we're talking huge differences between what's already on the road. 

A fully loaded semi supposedly can weight 80,000 lbs. Interstate overpasses handle those just fine. (Parking garages could be a different story as they're not built for that weight of course.)

MikeDeTiger

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1089 on: November 29, 2023, 10:53:25 AM »
Parking garages, bridges, heck just plain old roads, none are built for use by a large amount of EVs.

The I35 overpass bridges in downtown Austin at rush hour are bumper-to-bumper from 7 AM to 9 AM every morning and from 4 PM to 7 PM every night.  Right now the traffic on them is 95% ICE.  What's going to happen when that number gets closer to 50/50?

Any civil/structural engineers around wanna do the math for us? :)

I think I note this here every once in a blue moon, so here is your annual-ish reminder about driving on I-10 through Louisiana.  Don't take I-10 through Lake Charles as there is wide concern about the structural integrity of the bridge.  It hasn't happened yet, but the local engineers have been begging for funding to do something about it for over a decade now, they claim the piles and piers are unfit and unsafe and that the bridge was not built for the traffic I-10 gets now.  It hasn't fallen down and killed a bunch of people yet, but I figure there's a first time for everything, and I usually spend the +10 minutes to take the 210 loop.  

847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1090 on: November 29, 2023, 10:56:44 AM »
According to Google, the Lexus RX curb weight is 4,067 to 4,750 lbs. The Lexus RZ curb weight is 4,564 to 4,619 lbs. Tesla Model Y is in the same range at 4,154 to 4,555 lbs.

It also has an F-150 ranging from 4,275 to 5,757, and we all know Texas has a few of those rolling around.

For comparison, a Tesla Model 3 is between 3,862 and 4,048, while a comparable midsize sedan (Camry) ranges from 3,310 to 3,595.



So yes, batteries are heavy, but it's not like we're talking huge differences between what's already on the road.

A fully loaded semi supposedly can weight 80,000 lbs. Interstate overpasses handle those just fine. (Parking garages could be a different story as they're not built for that weight of course.)

Model 3 is a compact car and is in no way comparable to a Camry. Even a Carrola has more space. 
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utee94

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1091 on: November 29, 2023, 11:06:42 AM »
According to Google, the Lexus RX curb weight is 4,067 to 4,750 lbs. The Lexus RZ curb weight is 4,564 to 4,619 lbs. Tesla Model Y is in the same range at 4,154 to 4,555 lbs.

It also has an F-150 ranging from 4,275 to 5,757, and we all know Texas has a few of those rolling around.

For comparison, a Tesla Model 3 is between 3,862 and 4,048, while a comparable midsize sedan (Camry) ranges from 3,310 to 3,595.



So yes, batteries are heavy, but it's not like we're talking huge differences between what's already on the road.

A fully loaded semi supposedly can weight 80,000 lbs. Interstate overpasses handle those just fine. (Parking garages could be a different story as they're not built for that weight of course.)


I'm more worried about the static weight of traffic stopped on that bridge/overpass, which is why I specifically cited rush hour in Austin.  A span that, at low traffic times, might have only one semi passing across it in a given time period, might now have 4-5 stopped directly on top of it, at peak traffic time.  It's built to handle that load for the ICE version of the vehicle.  But can it handle the EV equivalents?

I don't know what safety margin/safety factor structural engineers use for such structures.  I believe it's several times the expected weight.

But while an EV sedan might only weigh 30% more than its ICE equivalent, I saw some info that EV trucks and SUVs can weigh up to 2.5X their ICE equivalents.

So, how much of the total vehicle base is currently sedans versus trucks/SUVs, and where are those trends headed?

I'd say it's worth a reasonable amount of concern.

 

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