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Topic: Electric Vehicle News Items

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847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1050 on: November 20, 2023, 05:07:17 PM »
Good question. I can see why it seems contradictory.

First, it's not so much Tesla. It's Musk. Some of what I see as Tesla's issues are partly due to Musk's leadership, but overall I think Tesla has a bunch of fine engineers who are working hard. And it's based on their work that Tesla has the first-mover advantage in EVs that they have, despite Musk getting the credit. And I think it's some of the things Musk has been doing that could squander that first-mover advantage once the big boys enter the chat.

I'd say the biggest thing with Musk is that you never know whether what comes out of his mouth will happen. What you DO know is that it won't happen on the timeline he's promising. Or that it'll live up to his billing (i.e. full self driving, which is still a pipe dream). All I have to do is count the number of Tesla robotaxis on the road (hint: it's zero) to point that out. And how are those solar roofs going? Hyperloop anyone?

And then there's the fact that he's basically a little boy with a billionaire's budget, and some of his decisions are screwing up the first-mover advantage. I.e. who in their right mind wants a Cybertruck? It's like he's an 8 year old who drew it on a napkin with the Delorean (not a model for successful automaking lol) as inspiration. If he wanted to make a truck, focus on a truck you can actually manufacture, and put it on a timeline that will actually beat the alternative instead of being years behind Rivian and falling behind Ford of all companies.

From a business perspective, Musk seemingly started with the idea that everything legacy automakers do is stupid, and he was going to reinvent the wheel. A lot of the issues with Teslas from a repair/insurability standpoint IMHO has to do with the fact that he took a completely different approach to supply chain than other automakers. "Move fast and break stuff" is great in tech--it's not so great when you have to get parts for a car that you built 4 years ago that you chose lowest-cost suppliers who didn't have the embedded/industrial supply chain mentality and would commit to long product life cycles. So now you have a car you can't repair because you changed things every 3 months. That was fine in startup mode, but eventually you have to grow up and realize that a lot of the stuff legacy automakers do is not because they're stupid, or obsolete, or aren't thinking right--they do it because they know their business model. And some of it is BS too. "Look everyone, we have a tablet in our car!" Great, something that you can't control anything in the car w/o *looking* at a touchscreen and navigating menus. That's safe to do when driving! Touchscreens are one of my pet peeves in cars lol...

I will give Musk credit. I don't think the EV market would be where it is if not for him. He built that first-mover advantage by attacking a market before it was really viable, and just brute-forcing his way in. He pushed to not only high volume manufacturing, but profitability. Which was questionable whether they'd get there a few years ago. Heck, at one point on this very board (~2019 IIRC) I spoke of them having a liquidity crisis and needing a capital raise just a few months after saying they had plenty of capital--and the way you could tell it was a crisis was the terms they had to meet to get the money. And they weathered the storm and they're viable right now.

But for all the ways he bills Tesla as a tech company and not an automaker, he doesn't have a defensible technology moat. He's not vertically integrated in batteries, and most of the tech seems to be Panasonic's, not Tesla's. Full self driving doesn't appear to be on a timeline where he's going to win there. He's late on a truck. His semi tractor is still a prototype. He's full of a lot of promises, and promises are great when you have no competition. But the competition has come to the party, and they're starting to replace his vaporware with actual products.

Tesla has a lead because they have good people, and because they had a head start. But without a defensible technology moat, better-capitalized companies that REALLY know how to make cars are going to quickly close that lead. And what happens to Tesla at that point?
GM or Ford buys it and runs it into the ground?
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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1051 on: November 21, 2023, 04:27:04 PM »
Hyundai Doubles Down on Hybrids and EVs as Competitors Back Off (motortrend.com)

At the moment, I'm most interesting in the Tucson Hybrid, but still holding off a while.  It's the only one with ventilated seats which my wife says she wants (I don't think they do much).  I have yet to drive one.

847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1052 on: November 22, 2023, 07:17:40 AM »
In my experience, generally, the Hyundai family of vehicles is under-powered.

I drove a Genesis and it was fine but those cost money.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1053 on: November 22, 2023, 07:29:45 AM »
That is a concern, I agree, coming off the GTI.  The Tucson hybrid has more power than the regular one, and the plugin has more power than that, but is quite a bit more expensive.  My daughter leased a regular Tucson and said it had plenty of pep, we'll see when we drive it.  7.7 seconds is only "OK".  C&D got it in 7.1 seconds, they use a different technique on their runs.  I'm trying to avoid any CVT and DCT transmission  types for one thing.  I'd like decent mpg.  My wife wants a "deluxe" model with ventilated seats, which narrows the field.

Really, I just want to keep the GTI.

2023 Hyundai Tucson Hybrid Prices, Reviews, and Pictures | Edmunds

How does the Tucson Hybrid drive? You might not guess it, but the Tucson Hybrid is a standout athlete in the hybrid SUV class. It provides a smooth, comfortable driving experience with few faults: The steering is crisp, its handling is composed around sharp turns, and the hybrid powertrain is a willing sprinter. In our testing the Tucson Hybrid zipped from 0 to 60 mph in 7.7 seconds, beating out the Toyota RAV4 Hybrid as the quickest in the class.

It feels good around town too. The traditional six-speed automatic transmission is eager to deliver power when you need it. We also like the responsive brakes. Beware that clunky gear shifts are sometimes apparent at low speeds, and the crossover dives forward a bit under hard braking. But in all it's an enjoyable drive, and the handoff between electric power and the engine is excellent.


2023 Hyundai Tucson Hybrid Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com)

At our test track, our loaded Limited hybrid test vehicle managed a 7.1-second run to 60 mph. While the Tucson is no sports car, its handling is confident, it's got solid steering, and a comfortable ride. The richest part of the Tucson drive is its quiet cruising speed that lends itself to a more luxurious experience otherwise lost in this affordable-minded segment of SUVs.

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1054 on: November 22, 2023, 08:20:30 AM »
2025 Volvo EX30 First Drive: A Hit in the Making (motortrend.com)

Poke around the automotive world a bit these days, and you'll trip over half a dozen doom and gloom headlines predicting a sudden collapse of the EV market in America. Never mind that EV sales and market share are up year over year, quarter over quarter, and month over month and continuing to climb. These stories all point to the same canary in the lithium mine: the number of EVs on dealer lots and how long it takes to sell them. They always seem to leave out the part where the vast majority of EVs today are very expensive, most starting at more than $48,000 (the average selling price of a new car in America) and many of the less expensive ones blowing past that figure as soon as you've added all-wheel drive.

The EX30? It starts at $36,245 and fully loaded it's $49,195.
It starts at $36,245 and fully loaded it's $49,195. That alone will bring people in the doors, and the fact it's not only not a penalty box but actually a really good little car will seal the deal. If they lease, they'll even be eligible for a tax credit despite the fact EX30s will be built in China and Belgium (likely a $3,750 credit as the batteries are made in China, which disqualifies it from getting the full $7,500 credit). Because the car is made outside the U.S. and its batteries come from China, it isn't eligible for any federal purchase tax credits, but with a price this low it doesn't need them to hook potential shoppers.

Meh.

847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1055 on: November 22, 2023, 08:41:43 AM »
Big time Meh on that one. Shame on you, Volvo.
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Cincydawg

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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1057 on: November 22, 2023, 12:00:45 PM »
2025 Cadillac Escalade IQ Officially Here: Everything You Need to Know (roadandtrack.com)

 This means you can add up to 100 miles of range to the battery pack in as little as 10 minutes of charge time. A standard Level 1 charger should provide up to 14.8 miles per hour, whereas a Level 2 charger can provide up to 37 miles in an hour, according to Cadillac. The SUV will also support bidirectional charging capabilities, allowing customers to power their homes if it is properly equipped.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1058 on: November 22, 2023, 12:04:52 PM »
GM or Ford buys it and runs it into the ground?
BTW meant to reply to this... 

The problem is that nobody can afford to buy Tesla unless it's already been run into the ground. They've got a (currently) $766B market cap. Ford's is $40B. 

The kind of slide they'd need to undergo to be an acquisition target would be insane. 

It'd be more likely that Tesla would buy Ford and run it into the ground. He's already done that with $44B buying Twitter X and all he seems to be accomplishing is lighting money on fire. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1059 on: November 23, 2023, 09:00:27 AM »
What is the current best scenario for buying an EV?  Presume you get the $7500 (or not if commercial).

We have delivery vans here coming and going frequently, they usually idle, and are gasoline powered.  I don't know how far they go in a day.  A basic delivery van that costs say $45,000 and has a 125 mile range... is that a good proposition?

The first EV I rode in was in Copenhagen, a VW ID4 I think.  It was quiet and smooth and the driver liked it, he said (we used him several times).  He said range was never an issue for him.  

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1060 on: November 24, 2023, 08:45:25 AM »
How to Take an EV Road Trip - Kelley Blue Book (kbb.com)

I found this a bit interesting.  Note he says charging his Leaf the first time cost $13.75 while his much larger Chrysler Pacific would have used about $20 in gas, at $4.09 per gallon.  Gas prices here are well under $3 now.

Charging away from home is much pricier, 2-3x home charging.

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1061 on: November 25, 2023, 07:04:08 AM »
EVs Are Supposed to Be Cheap to Maintain—Our Kia EV6 Isn't So Far (motortrend.com)
EVs Are Supposed to Be Cheap to Maintain—Our Kia EV6 Isn't So Far (motortrend.com)


FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1062 on: November 25, 2023, 02:34:40 PM »
The negative impact on the climate from passenger vehicles, which is considerable, could have dropped by more than 30% over the past decade if not for the world’s appetite for large cars, a new report from the Global Fuel Economy Initiative suggests.

Sport utility vehicles, or SUVs, now account for more than half of all new car sales across the globe, the group said, and it’s not alone. The International Energy Agency, using a narrower definition of SUV, estimates they make up nearly half.

Over the years these cars have gotten bigger and so has their cost to the climate, as carbon dioxide emissions “are almost directly proportional to fuel use” for gas-powered cars. The carbon that goes in at the pump comes out the tailpipe.


Transportation is responsible for around one-quarter of all the climate-warming gases that come from energy, and much of that is attributable to passenger transport, according to the International Energy Agency.

But the negative environmental impact from SUVs could have been reduced by more than one-third between 2010 and 2022, if people had just continued buying the same size cars, according to the initiative, which is a global partnership of cleaner vehicle groups.

One fix for this could be electric vehicles.

Meanwhile, smaller vehicles, or sedans, have lost a lot of ground in the U.S. market over the past decade. In 2012, sedans accounted for 50% of the U.S. auto retail space, with SUVs at just over 30%, and trucks at 13.5%, according to car-buying resource Edmunds. By 2022, U.S. sedan share dropped to 21%, while SUVs hit 54.5% and trucks grew to 20%.



Large SUVs such as the Chevrolet Tahoe, Toyota Sequoia, or Nissan Armada have highway gas mileages of 28, 24, and 19, respectively. But even the most efficient SUVs will be less efficient than sedans because SUVs weigh so much more. A sign of progress, however, is that compact SUVs, such as the Toyota RAV4 and Honda CR-V (at 35 and 34 highway miles-per-gallon, respectively) are now leading the U.S. SUV market, accounting for about 18% of new vehicle sales last year.

More efforts by the U.S. Department of Transportation, the Environmental Protection Agency, and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, are also underway to improve gas-powered vehicle fuel economy and tailpipe emissions. Some initiatives could include SUVs, which has the industry up in arms.

Until recently, consumers had few electric models to choose from if they wanted to reduce the impact of their own transportation. A majority of early electrified car options were sedans, particularly in the luxury segment.

More automakers are launching larger EV types, but those could require even heavier batteries onboard. The environmental aspect also needs to be weighed if an SUV is replaced by an EV, said Loren McDonald, CEO of market analysis firm EVAdoption. “Just electrifying doesn’t get us much if we also don’t focus on weight and efficiency of these vehicles and smaller battery packs,” McDonald said.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1063 on: November 28, 2023, 12:28:03 PM »
Of course this is happening.

Voice of the Customer (evvoiceofthecustomer.com)

Last year, there was a lot of hope and hype about EVs. Early adopters formed an initial line and were ready to buy these vehicles as soon as we had them to sell. But that enthusiasm has stalled. Today, the supply of unsold BEVs is surging, as they are not selling nearly as fast as they are arriving at our dealerships -- even with deep price cuts, manufacturer incentives, and generous government incentives.

While the goals of the regulations are admirable, they require consumer acceptance to become a reality. With each passing day, it becomes more apparent that this attempted electric vehicle mandate is unrealistic based on current and forecasted customer demand. Already, electric vehicles are stacking up on our lots which is our best indicator of customer demand in the marketplace.

Mr. President, no government agency, no think tank, and no polling firm knows more about the automobile customer than us. We talk to customers every day. As retail automotive dealerships, we are agnostic as to what we sell. Our business is to provide customers with vehicles that meet the needs of their budgets and lifestyles.
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