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Topic: Electric Vehicle News Items

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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #966 on: November 17, 2023, 01:56:29 PM »
Many folks use a 220 outlet, and I'd guess most use a "fast charger" specific item they add in their garage.  A 220v outlet will do 7-8 miles in an hour.  A fast charger can add 100 miles of range in 20-60 minutes, some do it in as little as 10 minutes.

With an EV you of course need no oil changes, and your brakes will last basically forever (which is also true for a hybrid).  Insurance costs may well be quite a bit higher.  Even a small ding can total the car if the battery pack is damaged.

At this point, I think a regular hybrid is a much better choice overall.  And most supercars are going to hybrids, including the Corvette E-Ray.

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #967 on: November 17, 2023, 02:02:41 PM »
the Lucid Air Dream Edition Range, averaged 10.81 miles added per minute of charging from 0 to 80% and 2.86 miles per minute from 80% to 100%. However, you can buy five Bolt EVs for the price of one Lucid Air Dream Edition, so that has to be taken into consideration.  


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #968 on: November 17, 2023, 02:28:39 PM »
Looks like I'm paying 13.5 cents per kWh.  33-34 kWh for 100 miles = ~20 kWh per 60 miles, so * .135 = $2.70 to drive 60 miles. 

Currently, at ~35 mpg I need 1.71 gallons to go 60 miles.  Most used gas station for me is $2.46 today, so that's $4.22 to drive 60 miles.

If I figured that correctly, looks like an average EV would be cheaper, purely from a fueling up perspective.  No telling what kind of hidden or long-term costs may offset that or further increase the benefit. 

110 outlet needing an hour for every 3-4 miles of range is laughable, and it means I couldn't possibly keep the thing charged.  I'd need 210 hours per day.  I'm no math genius, but 210 hrs/day seems like a tough ask. 
Yeah, depends a lot on where you live. Electricity is expensive here in CA, but then again so is gas (almost $5/gal). One advantage of home charging is that if you're on a time of use (ToU) rate plan, the bulk of home charging is done overnight when electricity is cheapest. 

From every Tesla owner I've talked to, road tripping is actually not that big of a deal. The car's software can plan out your charging stops based on a couple of things and do other things to make it more convenient:

  • Charging to 100% full is the biggest issue. Charging to 80% is pretty quick at their superchargers, and it's that final 20% that really slows you down. But if you know that the distance to the next charge stop (and their software knows this) will only draw you down perhaps from 80% back to 15-20%, there's no need to charge to 100%. According to Tesla, adding 200 miles of range takes 15 minutes. That's more than filling your gas tank, of course, but it's not like you've got to stop for 30-60 minutes every time you charge.
  • The software knows your charging plans, so it can start automatically doing the thermal management necessary to prepare for faster charging as you're approaching the charging station. 
  • The range from one station to the next is going to typically be ~200 miles, which aligns well for most people with the amount of time they want to sit in the seat between stretch-the-legs / empty-the-bladder / fill-the-stomach stops. 
I'm not sure other manufacturers have quite caught up with Tesla on this front. Which bothers me as I'd want to avoid Tesla if I go EV. But I'm not sure I road trip often enough to make a difference. 

Per your last point, almost nobody uses 110 to charge unless they barely drive. A Level 2 charger can be installed relatively inexpensively ($500-1K) if you already have 240V service in the garage. Generally almost anyone should be able to charge to 80% overnight with L2 charging.



betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #969 on: November 17, 2023, 02:43:15 PM »
IMHO an EV can make a lot of sense for people if some of the following conditions exist:


  • They're well off enough that they can afford it--EVs are still expensive and you'll never make up the cost of a used Civic/Corolla vs even a Model 3 in gas savings IMHO. If your calculation is a Model 3 vs a BMW 3-series, you're in a different place.
  • They live in a single family home with parking and can install an L2 charger for home charging. If you have to rely on public chargers for 100% of your charging, the gas savings pretty much disappear IMHO. 
  • 90%+ of their driving is similar to "typical." I.e. mostly using the car for commuting, errands, etc at likely <50-60 mi/day, or even someone who uses their car for business driving around a lot (maybe up to 150 mi/day) and for whom traveling >200 mi in a day would be an uncommon event.
  • Someone who doesn't live in a BRUTALLY cold climate. By which I mean Edmonton might not be good, but Cleveland is probably fine. If they do live someplace that cold, they shouldn't be driving more than 100 mi/day. 
  • Someone who doesn't tow regularly (if looking at a truck). 


I can say here in CA, I know a lot of happy EV owners and have heard few to zero horror stories. Probably the worst is (as CD alludes to) a guy who has a Model S and ran into a nightmare after an accident where Tesla couldn't get parts for their own car so he lived in loaners for months and months before Tesla had to basically total his Model S. But I consider that a Tesla mismanagement problem, not an EV problem. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #970 on: November 17, 2023, 03:17:53 PM »
The accident thing is real.  Damage to the battery pack usually means the car is totaled, where an ICE vehicle might need a $2 K repair.  I infer insurance costs are higher.

The other type that could use an EV is a traditional 2 car family where mom drives a minivan and Dad uses the EV to go to work and back.

The Chevy Bolt would be decent for that situation, and I read they are going to continue making an updated version of it.

FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #971 on: November 17, 2023, 05:06:48 PM »
you really have to be motivated to save the planet to drive one of these


2023 Chevy Bolt EV Prices, Reviews, and Pictures | Edmunds
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #972 on: November 17, 2023, 05:13:28 PM »
you really have to be motivated to save the planet to drive one of these


2023 Chevy Bolt EV Prices, Reviews, and Pictures | Edmunds
Yeah, I think the only good-looking Tesla is the Model S, and the Model 3 is hideous. But it's better than this. 

And this is trash:



And it looks even worse in person. 

FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #973 on: November 17, 2023, 05:16:34 PM »
not just the look

I'd love to see you try to get in and then back out of the backseat of the Bolt
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #974 on: November 17, 2023, 05:39:49 PM »
not just the look

I'd love to see you try to get in and then back out of the backseat of the Bolt
I'm not sure I could get in and out of the front seat. 

FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #975 on: November 17, 2023, 05:46:09 PM »
it also seems that a person would have to drive many many miles in an EV charging at home to break even on the financial equation

especially with gas prices finally dropping
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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #976 on: November 18, 2023, 05:53:19 AM »
Yup, even with the tax credit.  The newer hybrids often offer better acceleration and better fuel economy.

847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #977 on: November 18, 2023, 06:39:12 AM »
Looks like I'm paying 13.5 cents per kWh.  33-34 kWh for 100 miles = ~20 kWh per 60 miles, so * .135 = $2.70 to drive 60 miles. 

Currently, at ~35 mpg I need 1.71 gallons to go 60 miles.  Most used gas station for me is $2.46 today, so that's $4.22 to drive 60 miles.

If I figured that correctly, looks like an average EV would be cheaper, purely from a fueling up perspective.  No telling what kind of hidden or long-term costs may offset that or further increase the benefit. 

110 outlet needing an hour for every 3-4 miles of range is laughable, and it means I couldn't possibly keep the thing charged.  I'd need 210 hours per day.  I'm no math genius, but 210 hrs/day seems like a tough ask. 
A new battery for an electric car is a hulluva lot more $$$ than a new battery for a gas car.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #978 on: November 18, 2023, 06:41:39 AM »
EV batteries apparently last the basic life of the vehicle, one way or the other, barring an accident.

The Tesla batteries last quite a long time apparently.

847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #979 on: November 18, 2023, 06:43:23 AM »
I'm thinking about looking into hybrids. 

Who makes them these days? 

Any good ones that are NOT ugly?
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