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Topic: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?

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Cincydawg

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Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
« Reply #490 on: July 12, 2024, 12:52:03 PM »
Polls show Democrats are right to panic about Biden (msnbc.com)

Reading the polls and donor support matters, and will matter a lot.  I don't see how Biden can survive all of this, much less be competitive in the election.

They panickin', Morty, I kin feel it.

KEY BATTLES
« Last Edit: July 12, 2024, 01:08:32 PM by Cincydawg »
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MaximumSam

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Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
« Reply #491 on: July 12, 2024, 01:40:14 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 12:49:52 PM
So, an additional question would be "How can the Biden campaign recover and potentially win the election?"

You have CNN out there going full bore, multiple Democrats in Congress, a ton of folks "behind the scene", even folks on MSNBC now.  I don't see any path back to "normalcy" for the campaign where everyone kind of forgets all this or decides it was not much of anything.
The only feasible way is to make public appearances and not sound addle brained. Not sure that is in the cards.
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utee94

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Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
« Reply #492 on: July 12, 2024, 01:43:33 PM »
So if Biden has already clinched the delegates he needs for the nomination, is there actually a way to remove him from the election?  What do the mechanics of that look like?

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Cincydawg

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Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
« Reply #493 on: July 12, 2024, 01:48:58 PM »
The delegates are not legally bound.  If there is no majority in Round One, the Super Delegate step in and can vote.  So one way is that Biden's delegates abstain first round, or vote for Harris, and then she is nominated instead of him.

But the convention is August 19-22.  Ohio already passed a law to allow Biden to be on their ballot, I don't know if that includes the nominee or just Joe.

For them to have a wounded candidate for nearly five weeks and THEN contrive to replace him ....  well, it would be something.
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MrNubbz

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Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
« Reply #494 on: July 12, 2024, 02:43:25 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on July 12, 2024, 12:27:33 PM
Why do you continue being deliberately obtuse?  Joe Biden can be completely mentally incompetent, and his camp can still be working against Trump.

The false dichotomy you continue to present is a logical fallacy, therefore any words uttered beyond it, are meaningless.
Isn't that a prerequisite to enter law school plus 15 hrs of watching Mr Haney on Green Acres.
And knock it off with all the unabating big words Junior
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MrNubbz

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Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
« Reply #495 on: July 12, 2024, 02:45:17 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 12:34:22 PM
I've already said what I've thought, several times.
Answer the question Claire,c'mon
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MrNubbz

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Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
« Reply #496 on: July 12, 2024, 02:49:07 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 11:32:44 AM
Does anyone here believe Biden has the "mental capacity to be President"?

Now, we've had incapacitated presidents before, I think implicit in the question is "effective President", not just a turnip holding the office.
How about a lampshade, turnips are living things with feelings
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MaximumSam

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Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
« Reply #497 on: July 12, 2024, 02:53:56 PM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on July 12, 2024, 02:45:17 PM
Answer the question Claire,c'mon
I don't find him to be incompetent in the sense that he doesn't know who people are or what people are talking about. He's old and slow and mixes up names and loses his train of thought. Does that mean he doesn't have the "mental capacity" to be president? Not sure what the standard is for that, but I suppose he does have the mental capacity to be president. But people are clearly concerned about it for good reason, and it ain't going to get better.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
« Reply #498 on: July 12, 2024, 02:55:27 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 11:21:41 AM
But that's just putting everyone who does something against Trump in some big bucket and calling it Biden. Lots of people hate Trump who don't have any connection to Biden whatsoever. Like I said, you quickly get into conspiracy theories with this stuff because that's the only way to hold it altogether.
You're overthinking it, Sam. 

The whole point is that none of the prosecutions are Trump's fault for the wrong he's done and the crimes he's committed. It's all someone else's fault. 

If you can't defend his actions, sometimes all you're left with is "malicious/selective prosecution :91:"
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Cincydawg

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Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
« Reply #499 on: July 12, 2024, 03:26:27 PM »
One very useful attribute for a President is being articulate.  A President can better LEAD by framing issues and proposed solutions in an articulate manner.  It's more readily accepted.  I used to think Jimmy Carter gave good speeches, if you read them, but they were not very good if you listened to him.  Obama, to me, was the reverse, he sounded good, but if I read the text, I'd often wonder what point he was making.

Another of course is being liked, admired, respected, etc., and having a decent popularity figure.  Were I President, I'd list three things, and focus on getting them done, visibly, and when one was done, I'd add another, etc.  And I'd use the Bully Pulpit, a lot.  I think I could present my case reasonably well on key issues and that would be more likely to drag Congress along and thereby get a thing done, maybe not exactly as I wished, but fairly close.

Anyway .....
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
« Reply #500 on: July 12, 2024, 03:36:47 PM »
And yet our two choices for the office are the guy whose best day is incomprehensible verbal diarrhea that sprays all over the place and stinks, and the guy who can't string together a sentence that proves he knows who and where he is. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
« Reply #501 on: July 12, 2024, 03:40:06 PM »
Yes, neither does well in my view using my metric.

Delegates elected to the national convention pledged to a presidential candidate shall in all good conscience reflect the sentiments of those who elected them

The above is a convention "rule".   Were I a delegate, I could interpret that to mean "at the present time".  What are the sentiments from my "district" at the present time?

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
« Reply #502 on: July 12, 2024, 03:41:38 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 12:49:52 PM
So, an additional question would be "How can the Biden campaign recover and potentially win the election?"

You have CNN out there going full bore, multiple Democrats in Congress, a ton of folks "behind the scene", even folks on MSNBC now.  I don't see any path back to "normalcy" for the campaign where everyone kind of forgets all this or decides it was not much of anything.
This and this:
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 12:52:03 PM
Reading the polls and donor support matters, and will matter a lot.  I don't see how Biden can survive all of this, much less be competitive in the election.
Are interesting questions but I think you have perhaps underestimated the polarization of the US Electorate.  

I took the #'s from 538's site a couple days ago so this isn't 100% current but I think it is close enough and mostly post-debate.  

Electoral Votes where the margin is >12%:

  • Biden leads Trump 167-125
Electoral Votes where the margin is >8%:
  • Biden leads Trump 191-132
Electoral Votes where the margin is >6%:
  • Biden leads Trump 209-189
Electoral Votes where the margin is >4%:
  • Biden leads Trump 225-219

What I am getting at here is that the Democrat (whoever it is) has something of a "safety net" somewhere between 167-225 EV's.  Here are the Democrat's 167 surest EV's:
  • 3EV's in DC:  DC has NEVER voted R and went for Biden 92-5 in 2020
  • 3 EV's in VT:  VT went for Biden 66-31 in 2020 and hasn't voted R since (barely) voting for Bush over Dukakis in 1988
  • 11 EV's in MA:  MA went for Biden 66-32 in 2020 and hasn't voted R since (barely) voting for Reagan over Mondale in 1984
  • 10 EV's in MD:  MD went for Biden 65-32 in 2020 and hasn't voted R since (barely) voting for Bush over Dukakis in 1988
  • 54 EV's in CA:  CA went for Biden 63-34 in 2020 and hasn't voted R since (barely) voting for Bush over Dukakis in 1988
  • 4 EV's in HI:  HI went for Biden 64-34 in 2020 and hasn't voted R since voting Reagan over Mondale in 1984
  • 1 EV in ME 1st District:  ME's 1st District went for 60-37 in 2020
  • 4 EV's in RI:  RI went for Biden 59-39 in 2020 and hasn't voted R since (barely) voting for Reagan over Mondale in 1984
  • 7 EV's in CT:  CT went for Biden 59-39 in 2020 and hasn't voted R since (barely) voting for Bush over Dukakis in 1988
  • 28 EV's in NY:  NY went for Biden 61-38 in 2020 and hasn't voted R since voting for Reagan over Mondale in 1984
  • 3 EV's in DE (Biden's home state):  DE went for Biden 59-40 in 2020 and hasn't voted R since voting for Bush over Dukakis in 1988
  • 12 EV's in WA:  WA went for Biden 58-39 in 2020 and hasn't voted R since voting for Reagan over Mondale in 1984
  • 8 EV's in OR:  OR went for Biden 56-40 in 2020 and hasn't voted R since voting for Reagan over Mondale in 1984
  • 19 EV's in IL:  IL went for Biden 58-41 in 2020 and hasn't voted R since voting for (barely) voting for Bush over Dukakis in 1988

For reference:
  • Ronald Reagan died June 5, 2004
  • George HW Bush died November 30, 2018
  • Walter Mondale died April 19, 2021
There are NO living Republicans who have ever carried any of the above states in a Presidential Election and Michael Dukakis who will turn 91 just before the election this fall is the only living Democrat to have ever lost any of the above states in a Presidential Election.  


My point here is that I just can't see Trump or any other Republican getting beyond "striking distance" from Biden or any other Democrat.  I think the Democrat literally no matter who it is can safely rely on at least the above districts and their 167 EV's.  Realistically I think the same applies to NJ, CO, NM, and VA as well and that brings the D (whoever it is) to a minimum of 209 EV's.  Maine, New Hampshire, and Minnesota are arguably among that group and if you include them then any D has 225 EV's in the bank before the campaign even starts and thus only needs 45 to win.  

For that reason I just don't see this getting beyond "striking distance" so I think the election will be at least theoretically competitive.  
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Cincydawg

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Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
« Reply #503 on: July 12, 2024, 03:44:56 PM »
The related factor of course is how a President is viewed by other leaders.  If they view him as weak and not in touch with "reality", they will be emboldened in a way they would not otherwise be.  This is perhaps more important.  

Hitler for example knew the bind Chamberlain was in given the French unwillingness to go to war over the Sudetenland.  He saw Chamberlain as indecisive, and took advantage.  When France and GB gave guarantees to Poland, he viewed those as being silly and irrelevant.  Russia was the only power that could do anything about Poland.

Presume Putin finally gets his way in Ukraine, which is possible, a rump state with a leader of Putin's choosing.  Would the leaders in Moldova cave in thinking Biden wouldn't be of any real help.  What about the Baltic states?  Would they cave wondering if Article 5 were really a thing?  (And yes, you can ask this hypothetical about Trump.)

Would we go to war with a nuclear power over Estonia?
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