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Topic: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?

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Cincydawg

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #70 on: May 22, 2023, 02:47:09 PM »
Some might notice how "we" can adopt different points of  view initially, exchange thoughts and observations and opinions, and arrive at something close to a consensus.

I think it would make for a neat experiment.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #71 on: May 22, 2023, 02:58:37 PM »
I would also state one thing...

The guy here who is most scared of monopolies that will overcharge for substandard product because of a lack of competition...

...happens to work for a monopoly that its detractors say overcharges for substandard product, and have been suggesting for decades that introducing competition--even if it remains publicly-funded competition--into that market would help with both.

Cincydawg

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #72 on: May 22, 2023, 03:00:09 PM »
You could add me to a list of folks "scared" of monopolies of all sorts.  

longhorn320

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #73 on: May 22, 2023, 03:00:23 PM »
I would also state one thing...

The guy here who is most scared of monopolies that will overcharge for substandard product because of a lack of competition...

...happens to work for a monopoly that its detractors say overcharges for substandard product, and have been suggesting for decades that introducing competition--even if it remains publicly-funded competition--into that market would help with both.

nice point
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #74 on: May 22, 2023, 03:12:54 PM »
You could add me to a list of folks "scared" of monopolies of all sorts. 
Don't get me wrong... So am I.

I'm especially scared of the big one HQ'd in Washington DC, and the smaller one HQ'd in Sacramento, etc... Those are the monopolies that charge me their rates of service at the point of a gun even if I don't like the product they're offering. 

So far I don't encounter that in the private market--and yes, to a point you can say it's due to regulation preventing it. But even the monopoly that you claimed, Facebook, I have made my choice. I don't have a Facebook account and they can't force me to. 

847badgerfan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #75 on: May 22, 2023, 03:24:53 PM »
I can stipulate that. I.e. why Walt Disney had to resort to all sorts of shell companies to quietly buy up the land around Orlando to build Disney World because he knew that if anyone knew he was doing it, the price would climb immediately.

It's a lot harder to pull that kind of stuff off these days.
More like almost impossible. I work with builders who try to consolidate lands to build commercial and/or housing. Word gets out pretty quick when you can sit on Zillow and look for sold properties.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #76 on: May 22, 2023, 03:26:36 PM »
F Bookface.

F Lance Armstrong too.
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longhorn320

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #77 on: May 22, 2023, 03:31:56 PM »
More like almost impossible. I work with builders who try to consolidate lands to build commercial and/or housing. Word gets out pretty quick when you can sit on Zillow and look for sold properties.
China is doing this right now
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Cincydawg

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #78 on: May 22, 2023, 03:34:54 PM »
Your gas and electric company used to be a virtual monopoly, with government "controls".  Zoning boards are monopolies, I know how they get coopted.  Governments as mentioned are.  You can home school if you are able, and there are private schools, $$$$.

Commercial airliners are nearly a duopoly these days, and companies like Delta make a point of keeping both around (which aligns with your point nicely).  It's not like the days of the Robber Barons.    Anyway, interesting discussion.

(I do have a FB account, I find it interesting often as not.  A good feature is that it is "free".)

847badgerfan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #79 on: May 22, 2023, 03:58:00 PM »
China is doing this right now
Not here, legally. State law prohibits Chinese land ownership. I'm sure they are finding ways.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #80 on: May 22, 2023, 04:07:10 PM »
Your gas and electric company used to be a virtual monopoly, with government "controls".  Zoning boards are monopolies, I know how they get coopted.  Governments as mentioned are.  You can home school if you are able, and there are private schools, $$$$.

Commercial airliners are nearly a duopoly these days, and companies like Delta make a point of keeping both around (which aligns with your point nicely).  It's not like the days of the Robber Barons.    Anyway, interesting discussion.

(I do have a FB account, I find it interesting often as not.  A good feature is that it is "free".)
Yeah, gas/electric, cable, phone, etc are regulated monopolies. At least here they still are. 

School is a de facto monopoly. Yes, you can avoid it via home-schooling and private schooling. But due to cost, that's not viable for most. There is also school choice in one additional sense--you can avoid the problems with lack of competition based on where you choose to live. But that just means the most vulnerable, those of lowest means, get trapped in failing school systems with no realistic alternative.

And yes, I've been thinking of Boeing/Airbus this whole discussion. The airlines simply won't let one become a natural monopoly by only buying from one and not the other. It's not in their interests. Although with acquisition, this is a point where regulation comes into play--if Boeing tried to buy Airbus (or vice versa), even if it made economic sense it would be shut down by government.  

I don't have a FB account because I find it hard to suffer fools and keep my mouth shut. But I don't want to engage, so scrolling through a FB feed for me is an exercise in aggravation and willpower. I eventually decided it wasn't for me. Got into it with crazy autism moms in maybe 2013-14 or so and deleted my account b/c I was so aggravated. Restarted it in 2016 when I got divorced (you needed it at the time for online dating apps), found my wife, and then after being aggravated by it again deleted it again. 

I do have Instagram, though. I know it's owned by FB. But it's less annoying and political, and more about funny memes and dog videos, so I actually enjoy scrolling through a lot more. It also doesn't have the social pressure of "OMG you totally have to friend your crazy aunt Mildred and then be subject to her political rants or she'll be incredibly offended" vibe to it. 

utee94

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #81 on: May 22, 2023, 04:10:29 PM »

And yes, I've been thinking of Boeing/Airbus this whole discussion. The airlines simply won't let one become a natural monopoly by only buying from one and not the other. It's not in their interests. Although with acquisition, this is a point where regulation comes into play--if Boeing tried to buy Airbus (or vice versa), even if it made economic sense it would be shut down by government. 

Intel/AMD is another example.  Computer OEMs keep at least a few AMD SKUs alive, just to NOT have to deal with Intel as a monopoly.

And indeed Intel itself would prefer AMD remain alive, to avoid inevitable government regulation that would occur were AMD to fail or retire from the industry.

Cincydawg

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #82 on: May 22, 2023, 04:52:22 PM »
I wonder how much, um, collusion, these duopolies experience, either between each other or with clients ...

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #83 on: May 22, 2023, 05:00:14 PM »
I think Microsoft is a good example. They are one that was accused of being a monopoly, and to an extent, there's some truth there. They dominated desktop PCs, with Apple playing basically the same foil that AMD plays to Intel. 

Yet... What has happened? They're still the dominant PC operating system. But we've seen the rise of tablets (iOS/Android) as secondary computing devices, cutting into the desktop/notebook space. Apple has certainly not gone away in the desktop/notebook space, and has become a "real" player with full software support and accepted in business settings rather than just being the choice of "creatives" back in the day. Chromebooks have become a huge thing, cutting into that notebook space. And in the datacenter? Just about every single thing is Linux. 

You'd think Microsoft was unassailable because once they achieved their "monopoly", why would any software companies develop for non-Windows PCs, and why would anyone who learned to use Windows ever change? 

And yet even though they're still pretty dominant, alternatives have been chipping away and consumers have other very viable choices if they want them. 

 

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