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Topic: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?

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longhorn320

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2023, 11:07:25 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 21, 2023, 10:51:21 PM
You're learning!
capitalism is bad

rich folks are bad

sounds kinda socialistic

are you a socialist 

not condeming folks who are

just trying to see where you are coming from


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longhorn320

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2023, 11:13:29 PM »
OAM I found a video that reminds me of this thread



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9mf3Bypyk8
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2023, 11:28:24 PM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on May 21, 2023, 11:07:25 PM
capitalism is bad

rich folks are bad

sounds kinda socialistic

are you a socialist

not condeming folks who are

just trying to see where you are coming from
Sigh.
.
All I've said is that on a long-enough timeline, capitalism ends in monopoly.  And we'd all agree that is "bad."  I don't recall saying "capitalism is bad."  Capitalism has good aspects and bad aspects, but a really bad endgame.  I know that's far too nuanced for you, but it is what it is.
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I haven't said anything even approaching "rich folks are bad."  It's like you can't help yourself.  You're an expert strawman creator.  Rich folks tend to value money over most everything else.  That's how they get so rich.  They tend to influence decision-makers to keep the status quo, as that's the situation in which they became rich iin the first place.  Rich folks tend to value gaining an additional dollar over improving lives.  They're all for improving lives, if it makes them one additional dollar over not doing it.
That's how they got rich.
And they seem allergic to simply paying taxes.  You know, money for roads and schools and shit like that.  They'll do every legal? gymnastic possible to avoid paying taxes.  Honestly, it's fucking weird.  But it's a game for them.
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Capitalism vs socialism is largely an irrelevant choice imo.  As long as those who crave power get it and as long as those who would do it best don't want it, there is no "right" answer.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2023, 11:37:03 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
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longhorn320

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2023, 11:54:37 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 21, 2023, 11:28:24 PM
Sigh.
.

That's how they got rich.
And they seem allergic to simply paying taxes.  You know, money for roads and schools and shit like that.  They'll do every legal? gymnastic possible to avoid paying taxes.  Honestly, it's fucking weird.  But it's a game for them.
and yet the top 1% pay in over 40% on the Federal Income Tax collected
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2023, 11:56:41 PM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on May 21, 2023, 11:54:37 PM
and yet the top 1% pay in over 40% on the Federal Income Tax collected
I guess they're wasting money on those expensive accountants. 
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How much do rich people avoid in taxes? According to U.S. Treasury estimates, the top 1% of wealthy people underpay their taxes by $163 billion annually.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

longhorn320

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2023, 12:13:38 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 21, 2023, 11:56:41 PM
I guess they're wasting money on those expensive accountants.
.
How much do rich people avoid in taxes? According to U.S. Treasury estimates, the top 1% of wealthy people underpay their taxes by $163 billion annually.
they go on to say the total estimated underpayment is $600 billion by all tax payers

looks like we need to put those 80,000 additional IRS folks to work asap

one has to wonder just how they estimate this

seems like if they have enough info to estimate this they should be able to stop it or at least reduce it a lot

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Cincydawg

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2023, 06:38:48 AM »
What does "underpay their taxes" mean?  
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Cincydawg

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2023, 06:54:50 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 21, 2023, 06:32:41 PM
And how much would it be without the tax write-off?
Of course any tax deduction only works against earned income, so there is that, and you're only getting cents on the dollar, especially if you only pay 8% as Biden has falsely claimed.  (Biden keeps saying that even after being roundly fact checked on it.)

A ot of the donations I see, including my own, come from a charitable fund which was prefunded years back.  You don't get any current tax break for that.

Pure capitalism would end in monopolies which is why we don't operate that way any more.  Pure anything often doesn't work well.  I prefer the terms "free market" or "centrally planned" economies to capitalism and socialism, both of which are overly broad nonspecific terms.  Most western countries have hybrid economies of course, but most lean to free market, like say Sweden or Denmark, mostly free market economies.  Sweden has more billionaires per capita than does the US.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2023, 07:18:47 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on May 22, 2023, 06:54:50 AM
Sweden has more billionaires per capita than does the US.
Utopia!!
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U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2023, 07:25:49 AM »
We only visited one city in the south of Sweden, it was quite nice I thought,  Some good food, nice folks, interesting historical sites, neat hotel from the 19th century.  We spent two weeks across the straits in Copenhagen which of course we found to be outstanding (and no, I've not been to Amsterdam yet).

Just a pinch between your cheek and gum ...
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2023, 09:20:59 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on May 22, 2023, 06:54:50 AM
Pure capitalism would end in monopolies which is why we don't operate that way any more.  
Again, are we sure of this? I tend to find that a bigger a company becomes, the less agile and innovative they tend to be. If not for their own core competency, for the ability to do anything outside it (and react to anything that might disrupt it). And when they become less agile and innovative, they have a harder time serving customers. And a business which stops serving customers well loses market share to businesses that are better at it. 

The only way for a "business" to be a monopoly, bad at serving customers, and remain in business is if that "business" is government. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2023, 09:28:46 AM »
I THINK in some business areas unrestrained "capitalism" would result in monopolies, for a period of time.  Size is both an issue and an advantage.  Where I worked there were clearly "noncompetitive" approaches to business that were technically illegal because they would promote monopolization.  The company often skirted those, narrowly, depending on whether the FTC was paying much attention.  Companies like GM at one time probably could have forced Ford and Chrysler out of business.  I suspect later on, companies like Honda would have found a way to break that.  Facebook is a virtual monopoly today, I think.  "Utilities" often tend in that direction for obvious reasons.

Would Apple be a monopoly without FTC concerns?  Probably not.  
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2023, 09:35:13 AM »
I'm just tired of longhorn reading that I like chocolate ice cream and then his reply is asking me why I hate vanilla.  
Evolve, man!
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Cincydawg

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2023, 09:37:33 AM »
Shirely there is a solution for that somewhere.  
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