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Topic: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?

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Cincydawg

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2023, 09:01:23 AM »
I don't see anyone trying to "downplay" their financial situation.  Usually, folks tend to up it in casual conversation anyway (probably not here, but in general).  "I made a killing on bitcoin last year", etc.

I avoid those folks.  We had a few at work.  One guy kept bragging about how much he made flipping houses, and then 2008 happened and shut him up quick.

He was a jerk anyway.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2023, 10:35:58 AM »
Downplay? Like others, I like nice things. We discuss here. Much of our discussions would be gone if we didn't talk about travel, cars, places to live, etc.

If not talking about those things is downplay, well, I'm not playing. And this board is probably toast.
Didn't say that it was.
There are so many strawmen on this board, it's a fire hazard.  I'm sorry I used the word 'rich,' had no idea it was such a trigger word for you guys.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

847badgerfan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2023, 10:48:34 AM »
It's all about how you define rich.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2023, 10:59:15 AM »
So being aware of that, maybe there's no reason for some of you to downplay your obvious wealth. 
Who here has downplayed their obvious wealth?

847badgerfan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2023, 11:07:41 AM »
Who here has downplayed their obvious wealth?
Some might. We don't know. I really don't care, but I'm happy to know that many of us are well-positioned for/in retirement.

Good group of people.
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CatsbyAZ

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2023, 12:26:32 PM »
Think of in a general sense, not some isolated situation.  NAV is the key, not income.  If a person or couple has $X million, you'd consider them to be rich.

I'll give this a go based on conversations with my parents when I was a little guy in the 90s. A bit of a hybrid quantitative/qualitative answer.

"Mom, how much money does it take to be rich?"
"I'd say THREE MILLION."

(Keep in mind this was the Midwest in the 90s.)

My Mom's material reasons as told to a 10 year old?

You can pay off your house, keep a mortgage on a second home in a warmer state, pay for your children's college upfront and without loans, pay upfront for the fees to adopt a child (or two) from Romania, and host a Christmas Toy Drive for the "less fortunate" kids at your school.

You can see where my Mom's kind priorities were, but I can just hear Al Bundy or Roseanne hearing all this, and without missing the chance for a joke, responding: "Yes. Three million and maybe I can get courtside seats at the Chicago Bulls games and attract a trophy wife."

Fast forward thirty years later and I would raise this threshold to at least FIVE MILLION regardless of where in the U.S. you live and what your age is.

What I also find worth determining is the term "Generational Wealth." Chock this up as an unpopular opinion, but I find the term to be such a False Promise that it's worth questioning from a distance because of what the term ignores.

There's almost no amount of wealth that can survive a span of sixty years through a third generation. Even if invested properly (such as with the Rockefeller and Vanderbilt dynasties) uber-wealth faces an insidious and determined erosion due to inflation, division through successive inheriting, more aggressive taxing, and inevitable mishandling by undisciplined offspring.

I would say most Generational Wealth extends its usefulness only to the grandchildren (as overseen by their parents), but does not last substantially enough to be passed as an inheritance upon their parent's death, especially with how readily people live into their 80s.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2023, 12:31:37 PM by CatsbyAZ »

847badgerfan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2023, 01:16:39 PM »
^^^

Good post.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2023, 03:47:17 PM »
Who here has downplayed their obvious wealth?
I guess it didn't happen.  Sorry I don't search through pages of posts every time you go "huh?"
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Cincydawg

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2023, 12:13:11 PM »
The consensus here, so far, is about $5 million NAV.  That's actually far short of my quip about someone who doesn't need any income, I think for that to be true we're going in excess of a hundred million, but I suspect everyone here would think a hundred mil is rich by any reasonable metric.

Imagine a person with a net worth of a hundred mil, maybe $20 million is in personal real estate, which incurs taxes and upkeep and probably some staff.  Maybe $60 million is the company he started, maybe it's publically traded and so liquid, but as he sells any of that the tax man cometh.  The other $20 mil is just invested in whatever, say stocks and bonds.  He can "get by" by borrowing on those assets, say he needs $5 mil a year to "scrape by".  He can borrow that off his assets, for a while, and pay zero tax.  He'd have interest of course, and if the markets dropped a lot he might hear a margin call.  At this level, he might be better advised to sell what he needs and pay the tax man.  But if we make it $10 billion, he can borrow nearly forever and not sell and not pay income taxes.

I suspect none of us confront this particular challenge.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2023, 04:21:45 PM »
I love that the favorite past-time of the ultra wealthy is seeing how completely they can avoid contributing to the large, community pot.  

Those most able seem to be the least willing.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

longhorn320

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2023, 05:17:50 PM »
I love that the favorite past-time of the ultra wealthy is seeing how completely they can avoid contributing to the large, community pot. 

Those most able seem to be the least willing. 
are you sure bout that

$193 Billion seems like a lot to me


https://www.assetmark.com/blog/charitable-giving-for-high-net-worth-individuals#:~:text=People%20with%20greater%20wealth%20account,of%20a%20projected%20%24306%20billion).
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2023, 06:32:41 PM »
And how much would it be without the tax write-off?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

longhorn320

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2023, 08:46:27 PM »
And how much would it be without the tax write-off?
so you are now saying the well off do contribute to the community pot but only because of the tax write off

if you have a lot of money you wont do good things unless it benefits you

They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2023, 10:51:21 PM »
so you are now saying the well off do contribute to the community pot but only because of the tax write off

if you have a lot of money you wont do good things unless it benefits you


You're learning!
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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