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Topic: CRISPR and AI

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ELA

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Re: CRISPR and AI
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2025, 12:29:43 PM »
I'm sure they even scour this site as well, which is kinda scary.  
At least that means our robot overlords won't put beans in our chili

utee94

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Re: CRISPR and AI
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2025, 01:07:35 PM »
At least that means our robot overlords won't put beans in our chili
Most important observation of the day, right here!


MikeDeTiger

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Re: CRISPR and AI
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2025, 01:14:38 PM »
If AI doesn't allow beans in chili, it means we wound up in the Terminator/Matrix future, and not the optimistic Star Trek one.  

utee94

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Re: CRISPR and AI
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2025, 01:15:15 PM »
Aside from weird photos, what else could AI do in the future?  I know we have CGI of course in movies, which isn't really full AI stuff.  I think.

How hard would it be to completely duplicate a web site or email address to cull information from folks?  I know that already exists, folks exchange a symbol for some letter somewhere to differentiate that can't be seen.
This has long been done by 'bots, and is quite simple to program, no AI necessary.  The proper way to think about AI in such a context, though, is to think of the NEXT level.  Who programmed the 'bots to do their scraping, and how are their targets selected?  AI can code the 'bots (ultimately, more efficiently than humans can) and they can be given very simple instructions and extrapolate the desired target population of sites/data, more efficiently and more intelligently.  In other words, they can do a lot more, with a lot less compute power. 

That's just one very simple and basically already-existent example of how AI will change things.

In 3 years, jobs like mine will be completely replaced by AI. But somebody is going to need to know where to "point" the AI and how to make it relevant within your workplace, industry, and org structure.  That kind of "up-leveling" is one way to stay ahead of it.  


MikeDeTiger

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Re: CRISPR and AI
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2025, 01:34:28 PM »
Some will be good, some will be bad.  But the best advice I can give right now, is learn everything you can to understand it, and implement it.  Those who don't understand it will be left far behind.

That's my take.  Recently I did my thesis on machine-learning in radiology, and that was more or less the bottom line I came up with.  i.e., radiologists don't seem likely to be replaced by AI (in the foreseeable future), but radiologists who use AI will probably replace those who don't.  My loose assumption is a lot of other fields will be similar.  

My schooling was strictly for machine-learning, a subset of AI.  I haven't done anything with LLM's, but I know how they work, and it's fascinating.  Both for the nuts and bolts, but also for the eye-opening implications of what it means that LLMs can work as well as they do, how they do.  

I've used LLMs at times to help me with a tricky coding problem when I get stuck on something.  It's quite something how often it works well.  In my limited, purely anecdotal experience, it still spits out something dumb about 1 out of 5 times.  I've also noticed that for the most part, it can't correct and get any better with more/different prompts.  If it starts off hallucinating, it's probably going to keep doing it.  

That's quite something, that 4 out of 5 times I get useful help from it.  At the same time, 20% is still a heckuva hallucination rate.  I've also noticed that even when it gets things correct, its code format is crap.  As in, it works, but it's either not efficient or else it just looks like crap.  There's still something to be said for code being readable for other people, and so far, stuff like ChatGPT still spits out some pretty ugly code. 

I'm sure it will get better with time.  I guess.  

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: CRISPR and AI
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2025, 01:46:39 PM »
Yup hands are weird.  And it gets weird with motion, too.

What Gigem posted is mostly correct*, but only part of the story.  The models need training data.  That can be anything from the entire world wide web, to just specific data that you feed directly to it.

The larger the training data sample, and the less curated, the more likely you are to get weird outputs.  Like the weird stadium, flag, and logos above, or the weird hands on images of humans. 

And in the worst case, the AI LLMs trained on the entire web, have a tendency to "hallucinate."  They create completely false facts when queried on a subject.  The false facts are usually plausible, but they're absolutely 100% fabricated, because the training data has so much ambiguity and incorrect data within it.
Of note with both the hallucinations and the weird hands is that these are two symptoms of a very important point. Artificial intelligence--or to be more precise, Generative AI--isn't actually intelligent at this time. This makes it all the more impressive what it's actually capable of, and explains why it can also be spectacularly wrong.

Generative AI for text (i.e. based upon large language models and transformers) are, to oversimplify, just a predictive engine trying to figure out the next word(s) that follow the previous words it has written. Based on the quality of the prompt it is able to narrow down what portions of its language model to start with, and then the quality of the training data and model helps to guide it for where it goes from there.

For example, let's say it was trained on this site and I were to ask it: "How did utee94 end up in his career with [large computer manufacturer]?"

It could equally respond with:

  • utee94 grew up in Austin, TX, chose to go to the University of Texas and study electrical engineering, before taking his job with [large computer manufacturer].
  • utee94 grew up in Austin, TX, chose to go to Texas A&M University and study physics, before taking his job with [large computer manufacturer].

One is correct and one just made @utee94 throw up in his mouth a little, but both would be plausible. Because on this board "A&M" often follows "Texas"--sometimes in his own posts--and recently we've had discussions where utee's posts are discussing physics classes.


The truth is that the model isn't intelligent. It doesn't know who utee94 is. It doesn't know what Texas is. It doesn't have any way to "self-correct" because it has no context with which to guide itself.

The same is true with generative AI for images. For example, utee posted the image down below in another thread.

A generative AI engine is given a prompt of "show me a beautiful woman camping". And it did a darn good job... Right up until it put the woman's campfire right in the middle of her tent. Oh, and also seemingly got confused and ended up drawing one really deformed and elongated finger.

Fingers are hard for AI because AI doesn't know what a finger is, doesn't "understand" it's drawing a finger, and doesn't have context which tells it that humans (which it doesn't necessarily "know" what they are) only have 5 fingers on each hand. The training data is obviously going to have pictures of humans and those humans are going to have 5 fingers, but it's just trying to figure out "should I move on or should I put another beige fleshy appendage or two on?" based on its predictive engine and training data.




What AI is capable of today is truly impressive... But we have not reached artificial general intelligence. We have not reached a point where these Generative AI engines actually truly know what it is they're producing.

That said:

How hard would it be to completely duplicate a web site or email address to cull information from folks?  I know that already exists, folks exchange a symbol for some letter somewhere to differentiate that can't be seen.
You don't need to create artificial intelligence to overcome natural stupidity.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2025, 02:03:03 PM by betarhoalphadelta »

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: CRISPR and AI
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2025, 02:01:58 PM »
That's my take.  Recently I did my thesis on machine-learning in radiology, and that was more or less the bottom line I came up with.  i.e., radiologists don't seem likely to be replaced by AI (in the foreseeable future), but radiologists who use AI will probably replace those who don't.  My loose assumption is a lot of other fields will be similar. 

My schooling was strictly for machine-learning, a subset of AI.  
Yeah, people talk about AI as if it's entirely a new thing, and when it comes to generative AI, the advances in just the last few years have been staggering. 

However, most of what is actually "AI" is largely machine learning. And that's been around a LONG time. It's been gaining use as the cost and power of computing has decreased, but it's nothing new. 

For example, the big buzzwords in many industries is products that are designed with AI. For example just in something as trivial as golf clubs, I hear them claimed "AI designed face for higher ball speed on mishits" or something like that. 

I think you and utee and I all know that they didn't pump the prompt "Design me a golf driver clubhead that gets higher ball speed across the entire face" into ChatGPT and it spit out their design :57:

They used machine learning, basically the ability to iterate and model things nearly infinitely faster and more completely than humans can do, to vary the properties of multiple designs within the constraints that they have (such as the equipment rules of golf, the properties of the materials they have to work with, some basic parameters like "must be within this weight range" or "club face must be >0.x mm thick to avoid breakage") until they find the ones that achieve the best overall results. 

I'm going to assume that machine learning in radiology basically followed this rough model:

  • An exhaustive data set of radiological scans (of whatever type they worked with) was built. 
  • This data set obviously didn't just use raw scans, but they were annotated with tags such that it identified the various anomalies and outcomes that the actual patients had. I.e. if something was found to actually be a tumor when removed, it was tagged as a tumor in the data set. 
  • The machine learning models were trained on this very large dataset, such that it developed the ability to be presented with any of the images in the data set without any sort of tagging and would identify what it was supposed to identify with high accuracy. 
  • The models were then tested with novel untagged scans that it had NOT been trained on to see if its accuracy was maintained. 
  • Once a sufficient level of accuracy was achieved, it became a tool that radiologists can now use to augment their own training--because sometimes the model catches something they would have missed. But sometimes it catches something they missed because it was actually nothing. So the radiologist has to be able to use their own judgment to both recognize their own false negatives, and exclude the model's false positives.


Somewhat close on that?

Riffraft

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Re: CRISPR and AI
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2025, 02:56:38 PM »
I'm reading a somewhat scaryish book about the former, and we're all seeing stuff about the latter.  My premise is these two things MAY significantly influence our futures.  AI I'm not sure about, don't really understand it, am occasionally impressed with its output, and often dismissive of same.  It seems to be quite real and going to hog a lot of power in the near future.  I can envision a world "powered" by AI where live humans simply live in a virtual world in pods or something.  Maybe we serve as power sources for the AI.

CRISPR stands for Clustered Regularly Interspaced Short Palindromic Repeats. Repetitive DNA sequences, called CRISPR, were observed in bacteria with “spacer” DNA sequences in between the repeats that exactly match viral sequences.

This beast is akin to Brave New World futures, the ability to modify the human genome, for better or not so much.  The science is ahead of the ethicists at the moment.  Star Trek 2?  And in theory they can do it on live adult humans to correct genetic issues.  The writing for me is too drawn out, but whatever, I'm plowing through it, finished over half (from the library). 


I have a granddaughter with Cystic Fibrosis and while new drugs are great in delaying and preventing issues, CRISPR is by far the best possiblilty for her to be cured sometime in the future. 

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: CRISPR and AI
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2025, 03:12:23 PM »
CRISPR

And in theory they can do it on live adult humans to correct genetic issues.  

This intrigues me. How does that work? 

I understand perhaps how you would introduce this to an embryo, but how would you introduce a new genetic sequence to all the trillions of cells in a live adult human? 

MrNubbz

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Re: CRISPR and AI
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2025, 03:21:49 PM »
I've even seen some places selling fake fingers you can wear on your hands to give the appearance that you have extra fingers just in case you get caught on video you can claim it's fake. 

Strange world. 
Secret Service does this hands,walks with both hands out, only one of them is fake, with the other real one inside their coat on a trigger
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Cincydawg

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Cincydawg

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Re: CRISPR and AI
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2025, 03:24:32 PM »

MrNubbz

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Re: CRISPR and AI
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2025, 03:29:43 PM »
And in theory they can do it on live adult humans to correct genetic issues. 
And impliment other issues
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Gigem

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Re: CRISPR and AI
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2025, 03:31:35 PM »
I think the long finger/whatever was intended to be a stick poking the fire.  

 

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