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Topic: College World Series

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Anonymous Coward

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Re: College World Series
« Reply #112 on: June 26, 2019, 09:38:31 AM »
As for Kumar Rocker: dude had a 131 pitch count. Even if the game is postponed for weather, there's no reasonable way his season isn't still done.

ELA

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Re: College World Series
« Reply #113 on: June 26, 2019, 09:56:43 AM »
The problem wasn't the pitching last night.  Michigan still held Vanderbilt below their offensive average.  Michigan's offense only scored 1 run. Granted hindsight is always 20/20, but if Michigan had lost like 10-7, then I think he'd be under fire.  As it is, I think it was the right call, again, in hindsight.

This is substantially different than the Raptors example of pulling guys once a game is out of reach.  That would have been like if Michigan was down 7-0 in the 7th, and not wasting their best bullpen arms on a game that was already lost.

Anonymous Coward

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Re: College World Series
« Reply #114 on: June 26, 2019, 10:01:57 AM »
Michigan should feel lucky that Rocker didn't play in the first game opposite Tommy Henry. Would have been an tragic waste of a winning effort.

FearlessF

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Re: College World Series
« Reply #115 on: June 26, 2019, 02:04:49 PM »
They lost 4-1 tonight and left several on base.  It's not like he shut them down.  Throwing better pitchers and allowing fewer than 4 runs would have gone a long way toward ending it in 2. 

Always, always try to win the game you're playing today.  Never "concede" a game right off the bat.
But WTF do I know about college baseball and the CWS?  ~???
Well, one run is being shut down.

Michigan doesn't have the arms in the staff that Augie usually stockpiled.

Michigan also wasn't conceding the game.  Just working with what they had available w/o also jeopardizing arms for game 3.
You know plenty about baseball and NCAA baseball

It's just that I'm right this time ;)
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: College World Series
« Reply #116 on: June 26, 2019, 04:02:04 PM »
Well, one run is being shut down.

Michigan doesn't have the arms in the staff that Augie usually stockpiled.

Michigan also wasn't conceding the game.  Just working with what they had available w/o also jeopardizing arms for game 3.
You know plenty about baseball and NCAA baseball

It's just that I'm right this time ;)

If you've got a really good 1-2-3, and you play only 3 games in 8 days like Michigan did before last night, then you really should have been able to set up your rotation-- that's the key advantage to staying in the winner's bracket through the first 4-team tourney in Omaha.

Augie seldom had more than 2 legitimate starters, to be honest.  Maybe the difference is the closers, Augie usually had one good one.

utee94

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Re: College World Series
« Reply #117 on: June 26, 2019, 10:17:43 PM »
Yeah, so...

utee94

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Re: College World Series
« Reply #118 on: June 26, 2019, 10:41:34 PM »
Anyway, what a great run by Michigan, that was fun to watch.  I sure thought they were a team of destiny, but Vandy is really, really good.  

MarqHusker

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Re: College World Series
« Reply #119 on: June 26, 2019, 10:50:36 PM »
indeed.  Vandy is really good.

I still can't get used to the best of 3 finale, I'm not saying the old way was better, it was harder to package for TV, etc.

CatsbyAZ

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Re: College World Series
« Reply #120 on: June 26, 2019, 11:04:40 PM »
Does Ohio State have a baseball team?

utee94

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Re: College World Series
« Reply #121 on: June 26, 2019, 11:09:35 PM »
indeed.  Vandy is really good.

I still can't get used to the best of 3 finale, I'm not saying the old way was better, it was harder to package for TV, etc.


I liked the old way better, when it was a true double elimination tournament all the way through, but I've become accustomed to this. 

There's a pleasant symmetry in the 64-team field now.  You play a 4-team double elimination tournament in the regional, then a best of three game series in the supers, then another 4-team double elimination tournament in your half of the CWS bracket, and then a final best of three game series for the championship.  I'm cool with that.


The old complete double elimination tournament was great though.  But there were a few years in the late 80s/early 90s-- when they were first trying to package it fr TV-- that they had a completely awful double-elimination tournament until the final game.  So you could come out of the loser's bracket but then, if you made it to the final game, you didn't have to beat the winner's bracket team TWICE, as you should in a true double elimination tournament.  This happened to Texas in 1989, we won all of our games, Wichita State lost one and played up through the loser's bracket, but then wasn't forced to beat Texas TWICE to win the championship.  It was complete horseshit.  And it wasn't because they came from a different pool or a different side like they do now, it was a true double elimination tournament for every team-- except the team in the winner's bracket.

I also REALLY liked the old 6-team regionals when the field was 48-- those were an unbelievable almost week-long party when your town hosted one (and Texas was fortunate enough to host quite a few back in the day).



MichiFan87

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Re: College World Series
« Reply #122 on: June 27, 2019, 07:45:33 AM »
If I didn't say this before, this was a completely unexpected run. Apparently Fresno State won it all as a 4-seed so this isn't totally unprecedented, but even so. The best team in the country won it all, which is how it should go.

The upside is that I was able to pay attention to the democrat debate.... The downside is how that went, but that's for a different topic.
“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing”
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Anonymous Coward

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Re: College World Series
« Reply #123 on: June 27, 2019, 11:11:00 AM »
indeed.  Vandy is really good.

I still can't get used to the best of 3 finale, I'm not saying the old way was better, it was harder to package for TV, etc.

I'm not sure it mattered this year, since Michigan and Vandy got to that stage undefeated. Even in the old system, that would have forced what was basically a best of three series, right? I guess the years where the change makes the biggest difference are those where one team gets to the final undefeated, but the other gets there with one loss in their bracket and still gets the reset.

ELA

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Re: College World Series
« Reply #124 on: June 27, 2019, 11:45:24 AM »
Listening to FanGraph's podcast throughout the year, Vandy has marketed itself to pitchers as the school that will handle you like a prospect, as opposed to several colleges which were running pitchers into the ground to get wins.  The thought is now most schools have come around to that line of thinking, you almost have to in recruiting, but Vandy sort of pioneered that.  Naming some schools who were behind the curve on that, and it's sort of cost them their status, because pitchers don't want to go there were Stanford, Virginia, and all the Texas schools, but most egregiously, Rice.

utee94

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Re: College World Series
« Reply #125 on: June 27, 2019, 03:04:57 PM »
I'm not sure it mattered this year, since Michigan and Vandy got to that stage undefeated. Even in the old system, that would have forced what was basically a best of three series, right? I guess the years where the change makes the biggest difference are those where one team gets to the final undefeated, but the other gets there with one loss in their bracket and still gets the reset.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean here, but the answer to the part I've highlighted in red is, "No."

In the system prior to this, there was a single winner-take-all game, consisting of the winner of each of the two brackets or "pools" in the CWS.  You could get to that final "championship" game with either zero or 1 losses, but it was always still a single game and not a best of three series.

There have been a few different iterations, but pre-1988 it used to be a true double elimination tournament, with no separate sides.  So the "final" game always paired a 1-loss team with a 0-loss team.  If the 0-loss team won, it was over.  If the 1-loss team won, then it forced another game.

Then from 1988-2002, they split the sides into two 4-team double-elimination tournaments, but had an idiotic single-game championship.  I think this is the time period you're referring to in the part I highlighted in red?  This setup was totally bogus, because a team could lose one on their side, while the team on the other side went undefeated, and yet they were paired in a winner-take-all game. As you said, the team with 1 loss is granted a "reset" and if they win, then their previously undefeated opponent effectively becomes the only team in a double-elimination tournament, that can be eliminated with a single loss.  Absolute crap, and this is what happened to Texas in 1989. 

In 2003 they finally fixed it by making it a best of 3 series between the 2 pool winners, which was way way way better.  I'm assuming this change from a single game to a best of 3 is what MarqHusker was referring to, and if so, all I can say is THANK GOD it happened. The previous setup was horribad.

I was reminiscing about the setup prior to that, which was a true 8-team double-elimination tournament, which was not very TV friendly, to say the least.


« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 03:13:09 PM by utee94 »

 

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