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Topic: College Basketball Scandal

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847badgerfan

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2018, 09:31:12 AM »
ESPN is a shadow of itself, and what it was wasn't that great anyway. I used to have the "insider" pass for them and I let it go. They were charging for stuff that was free elsewhere, because they really don't have anymore writers. Most (if not all) of the team coverage is gone.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

847badgerfan

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2018, 09:33:00 AM »
Dickie V ragged on the dirtiness of coaching and college basketball last night.

A few minutes following that he was hyping the Duke recruiting class next year with the 1,2, and 3 recruits in the country coming in. No recognition of the fact that A could be connected to B. Or that the constant promotion of B creates A.

Now that the dirty laundry is aired out over the next month, I am more interested in what the solutions are. And for the simple-minded that say pay the players, I would be more curious on the mechanics of how that works. men vs women, power 5 vs non, revenue vs non revenue sport. And if not paying players how do we fix and enforce the current environment?
F Dookie V.

Last year when Miller's assistant got whacked he was the second (Bilas was first) person to stand up and scream about how clean Miller is. The guy is a blowhard asshole, and I always pray that he is not on the call when my team plays because he's insufferable.
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HailHailMSP

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2018, 09:35:39 AM »
Yahoo has snagged some well respected journalists. I am curious how they have monetized the work they do.

Same goes for The Athletic. That model is easier to understand however with direct membership. 

Both have countered ESPN and Fox, with less videos and more detailed writing. Guys like Wetzel, Rosenthal, and others seem to get free reign to be real journalists. It’s refreshing.

847badgerfan

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2018, 09:50:33 AM »
I also imagine the Grateful Red will be ruthless, and I think when it comes to even a sniff of NCAA improprieties, those are fair game for opposing fans.
It won't be your imagination. They will be more than their normal ruthless today.
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ELA

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2018, 10:02:11 AM »
Yahoo has snagged some well respected journalists. I am curious how they have monetized the work they do.

Same goes for The Athletic. That model is easier to understand however with direct membership.

Both have countered ESPN and Fox, with less videos and more detailed writing. Guys like Wetzel, Rosenthal, and others seem to get free reign to be real journalists. It’s refreshing.
Dickie V ragged on the dirtiness of coaching and college basketball last night.

A few minutes following that he was hyping the Duke recruiting class next year with the 1,2, and 3 recruits in the country coming in. No recognition of the fact that A could be connected to B. Or that the constant promotion of B creates A.

Now that the dirty laundry is aired out over the next month, I am more interested in what the solutions are. And for the simple-minded that say pay the players, I would be more curious on the mechanics of how that works. men vs women, power 5 vs non, revenue vs non revenue sport. And if not paying players how do we fix and enforce the current environment?
Or Bill Walton ranting about the cess pool of college basketball.  Shocked nobody asked him how much he got from Sam Gilbert.
As for paying players.  Not gonna happen.  As you said, too many problems, and in the end, it won't be enough to dissuade anything.  I don't think money will come from the NCAA as much as a relaxing of the rules regarding their ability to get paid on their own.
If an 18 year old wants to sign with an agent now, they'll be allowed to.  If a kid wants to get paid to sign autographs, he will.  I'm guessing there will still be some limits on receiving money from boosters of a specific program

ELA

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2018, 10:03:57 AM »
It won't be your imagination. They will be more than their normal ruthless today.
I think I would also prefer Wisconsin be a mediocre 9 seed NCAA team.  Instead, they have no postseason, and they would love nothing more than to ruin this for MSU.  Kind of like 2006 when OSU upset Illinois in the finale to ruin their undefeated season.

CatsbyAZ

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2018, 01:30:28 PM »
Fellow Arizona fans saying there must be more to the story of Miller trying to pay for play; saying it doesn't make sense for Miller to get busted so red handed only for Arizona AD, University Admin, & State Board of Regeants to fully back Miller yesterday. 

ELA

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2018, 04:13:07 PM »
Izzo said in his post game that they determined no money at all ever went to Bridges' mom.  Not sure how you prove or disprove a small amount like that, absent a deposit of exactly $400 the next day.

The guy was fired for lying about $60,000 in made up expenses, so it wouldn't be surprising, but considering ever other amount was $1,000+, I assumed the one small one to Bridges mom was true.

ELA

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2018, 10:31:41 AM »
Fellow Arizona fans saying there must be more to the story of Miller trying to pay for play; saying it doesn't make sense for Miller to get busted so red handed only for Arizona AD, University Admin, & State Board of Regeants to fully back Miller yesterday.
It seems like maybe there's nothing there yet.
There is one source claiming to have heard tapes?  ESPN ran a story without actually hearing anything themselves?
There are 3,000+ hours of wire taps right?  I'd imagine there are a ton of coaches on there.  And it's totally irresponsible journalism to be throwing names out without hearing anything yourself.  I'm sure if it turns out to be nothing, ESPN sure as hell won't be as loud as they were when they ran the story in the first place.  This is what happens when you fire each and every journalist you have, and then still try to do journalism.  All you kept was screaming heads, so stick to just airing screaming heads.  If I sold my lawnmower, I wouldn't keep trying to mow my own lawn with scissors, but that's what ESPN is trying to do.  Play journalists, without actually having anyone on staff who is one.
Unbelievable

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2018, 01:58:47 PM »
Again, I don't know if not reporting is a violation. Probably not.
Got it: http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D118.pdf
12.1.1.1.2 Institutional Responsibilities. 
<snip> 
12.1.1.1.2.2 Sharing Information and Reporting Discrepancies. If an institution receives additional information or otherwise has cause to believe that a prospective student-athlete’s amateur status has been jeopardized, the institution is responsible for promptly notifying the NCAA Eligibility Center of such information. Further, an institution is responsible for promptly reporting to the NCAA Eligibility Center all discrepancies in information related to a student-athlete’s amateurism certification. (Adopted: 4/30/07)

So there is a requirement that MSU or IU, if these contacts actually occurred, would have information that suggests that if Bowen is being represented by an agent [who is clearly suggesting he has the power to sway a decision] that Bowen's amateur status is jeopardized. By rule, they have a responsibility to report this to the NCAA.
Granted, I'll bet this is something that comes up quite a bit, and I'll bet it's something that athletic departments basically ignore. 
But there is a rule. If these conversations have been proven to exist, and thus it is shown that the schools absolutely had this information, they are in violation if they didn't report it to the NCAA.

ELA

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2018, 02:22:42 PM »
Got it: http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D118.pdf
12.1.1.1.2 Institutional Responsibilities.
<snip>
12.1.1.1.2.2 Sharing Information and Reporting Discrepancies. If an institution receives additional information or otherwise has cause to believe that a prospective student-athlete’s amateur status has been jeopardized, the institution is responsible for promptly notifying the NCAA Eligibility Center of such information. Further, an institution is responsible for promptly reporting to the NCAA Eligibility Center all discrepancies in information related to a student-athlete’s amateurism certification. (Adopted: 4/30/07)

So there is a requirement that MSU or IU, if these contacts actually occurred, would have information that suggests that if Bowen is being represented by an agent [who is clearly suggesting he has the power to sway a decision] that Bowen's amateur status is jeopardized. By rule, they have a responsibility to report this to the NCAA.
Granted, I'll bet this is something that comes up quite a bit, and I'll bet it's something that athletic departments basically ignore.
But there is a rule. If these conversations have been proven to exist, and thus it is shown that the schools absolutely had this information, they are in violation if they didn't report it to the NCAA.
Well everyone knew that Dawkins was handling his recruitment.  That alone isn't a violation anymore than how Swanigan's was handled by Rosie.  Obviously asking for money would be.  Is it a violation to ask a school to ask a former player to sign with a specific agency in exchange for the player?  If certainly *feels* dirty, but I'm not sure what the actual violation would be there.  There's no benefit to the recruit, or anything I see jeopardizing his amateur status, even if any deal like that had been made.  Let alone just pitched.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2018, 02:55:09 PM »
12.02.1 Agent. [A] An agent is any individual who, directly or indirectly: (Adopted: 1/14/12) 
(a) Represents or attempts to represent an individual for the purpose of marketing his or her athletics ability or reputation for financial gain; or 
(b) Seeks to obtain any type of financial gain or benefit from securing a prospective student-athlete’s enrollment at an educational institution or from a student-athlete’s potential earnings as a professional athlete. 
12.02.1.1 Application. [A] An agent may include, but is not limited to, a certified contract advisor, financial advisor, marketing representative, brand manager or anyone who is employed or associated with such persons. (Adopted: 1/14/12)

One thing that violated amateurism is entering into an agreement with an agent. Here agent is defined as anyone who "seeks to obtain any type of financial gain or benefit from securing a prospective student-athlete's enrollment". To ask another player on the same team to sign with your firm in exchange for enrolling the prospective student-athlete seems to violate that pretty handily. 

So if it's known that Dawkins is "handling" his recruitment, however that is known, I think it's clear that Bowen has entered into some sort of agreement [can be oral or written]. Thus Dawkins asking for a quid-pro-quo would make Bowen ineligible, even if he wasn't asking for cash. He was clearly asking for financial gain / benefit associated with the other players signing with ASM. 

PSUinNC

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2018, 03:18:34 PM »
Izzo said in his post game that they determined no money at all ever went to Bridges' mom.  Not sure how you prove or disprove a small amount like that, absent a deposit of exactly $400 the next day.

The guy was fired for lying about $60,000 in made up expenses, so it wouldn't be surprising, but considering ever other amount was $1,000+, I assumed the one small one to Bridges mom was true.
I believe every school that's been implicated is giving the NCAA a middle finger and essentially saying: "This is so vast and widespread you have no prayer of punishing us individually at this point, so might as well go 'F' yourselves and have fun trying to come get us later."
What's the NCAA going to do at this point, shut the whole season down?

ELA

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2018, 03:22:27 PM »
Yes, I agree as to the first.

Not sure what you mean by the second though.  I'm not sure it's clear he entered into any agreement with him.  All of these kids have handlers now.  Dawkins was his former AAU coach IIRC, and had been some sort of parental type figure in his life.  I would think you would need evidence that Bowen knew he was shopping him like that.  I don't see any evidence of that.  In fact, I would say at least the $100,000 Louisville paid for him would have been a tangible benefit to Bowen, had he seen it, and IIRC the FBI cleared Bowen of any wrongdoing there, and said it was a payment to his father.  This one sounds more like a small time runner trying to work his way up the chain by trying to use the high school connection he had to land an NBA player he probably couldn't even get a meeting with.  And was using him to his own personal benefit.  Remember this is a guy who lied on expenses, defrauded one of his NBA clients out of $42,000, and pretended to be the NCAA in a call to a then-HS aged Kyle Kuzma's family trying to convince him he was ineligible so that Kuzma would transfer to Dawkins' AAU team.

Here's a pretty comprehensive bio from Yahoo

https://sports.yahoo.com/meet-christian-dawkins-sloppy-reckless-prodigy-college-hoops-brink-213959726.html

 

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