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Topic: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion

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SFBadger96

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #252 on: January 12, 2018, 04:54:21 PM »
not sure why that excludes bama, they were the highest ranked 'everyone else', unless you limited it to 1/conf.
also, i don't like the hard set rule of conf champs in. i do not want to see 2012 gt (6-6 going into acccg), 2012 wisky (7-5), 2015 usc (8-4), 2011 ucla (6-6), and the many 3 loss teams that have played in all conf title games. all of those specific teams listed all lost, but eventually 1 will win and some 3 loss teams have won.
i'd be perfectly fine adding a "nd" type caveat, that if you're a p5 champ and in the top 8/10, you're guaranteed a spot.
but not a cut/dry line of conf champ. i value a 1 loss non champ over any 3+ loss team.
Actually, I was thinking P5 conferences only get conference champs in. I know this sounds like a rule to get ND in, but that's actually not my thought; it's to get the "little sisters of the poor" (end sarcasm) their shot. Also, in the last 10 years, I think ND would only qualify something like twice (once when undefeated, and once when #10 at 10-2). Or, it could be your way, which is just the highest ranked non-conference champ, but that defeats my purpose, which is to make the conference championship the primary goal for every P5 team. Or an interim step would be any non-P5 that is in the top 8 (which would reward quality OOC scheduling), and if no such team exists, then the highest ranked non-Champion. 
And yes, this means some weak P5 champions will get in from time to time because of some oddities, but if they lose, who cares, and if they win (which would be really rare), that will mean they had to beat three top 6 teams. Is that so bad?

Reyd

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #253 on: January 12, 2018, 05:15:52 PM »
Power 5 and big 5 play 10 games, 9 conference games in the 10 game season. Losers get tossed into the hamper and the conferences round robin games 11 and 12 . Sec plays Big10 this years, Mac next year etc.  
Conference championship are played leaving 10 teams. Bottom 2 seeds are tossed back into the hamper for game 12 along with the 10 championship losers. seeds 1 vs 8 etc and 4 teams left which do the NY and week later thing.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #254 on: January 12, 2018, 07:32:16 PM »
Utah won 28 games in three years, rising to No. 3 one year and No. 11 the next.
TCU won 11 games three times in four years and has three top-10 finishes.
It’s weird, these teams seem to do more than jack squat.
Ehhh, Utah went from 2 undefeated seasons in 5 years to......nothing.  Highest finish ranked 17th since joining the PAC.  No division titles.  They don't matter.  Fun slant you tried to put on it, though.
TCU has done well, but 3 things on that:
1 - continuity at HC (Patterson)
2 - they're in the XII
3 - Texas has been hibernating

“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #255 on: January 12, 2018, 07:35:08 PM »
It's fun to toss ideas around and we'll never come up with the one right answer, but one thing MUST be certain:  expanding the playoffs in ANY WAY decreases the urgency of the regular season, on a precise sliding scale.

“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

CWSooner

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #256 on: January 12, 2018, 08:04:46 PM »
UW played defense really well and OU didn't. I think Big Red could hang with them or even beat them on a neutral field. Not sure the Cotton would be neutral for UW though.

I'd rather they play in the Sugar or Orange (and not Miami in the Orange).

What I do know is that UW could not "out Bama" Alabama. Not enough depth to even think about winning against them.

I'd like to see Bama play OU this year. I think that would be an excellent game to watch.
For Sooner fans, it's easy to blame the loss to Georgia on our crappy defense.
But here's what has struck me.  We knew we had a crappy defense going in.  But we also "knew" we had the best offense in all of CFB.  Most Sooner fans figured that if we could get a few stops on Georgia, and hold them to FGs instead of TDs a few times, we would score enough to win.
Well, we got six (6) stops on Georgia, and we held them to three (3) FG attempts (if you count just before halftime and the 1st OT).  AND we got a defensive score, which I don't think we had done all year long.  That should have been enough.
And it would have been enough if our offense had done more in the second half than score one (1) time in 8 possessions in regulation.
And our kicking game sucked too.  Good kickoffs, but bad coverage that on at least one occasion almost gave up a TD.  Poor punting in the 2nd half.  No return game.  And no blocking on our FG attempt in 2nd OT.
Would have been interesting to see UW in the playoff, but I agree with you that the Badgers could not have out-Bama'd Bama.

Oh, yeah.  I don't want any expanded playoffs.  I'd rather go back to 2 than expand to 6 or 8 or 10.
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CousinFreddie

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #257 on: January 12, 2018, 10:53:08 PM »
Well, we got six (6) stops on Georgia, and we held them to three (3) FG attempts (if you count just before halftime and the 1st OT).  AND we got a defensive score, which I don't think we had done all year long.  That should have been enough.
And it would have been enough if our offense had done more in the second half than score one (1) time in 8 possessions in regulation.
Yep.  As we’ve talked about some on the B12 board, I think the main difference in that game was UGa’s coaches had a better 2nd half game plan than our guys.  Lincoln and co coached so impressively in the first half, running when they were expecting passes, and vice versa, but Georgia made some impressive adjustments and shut down the OU offense in the 3rd Q, and Riley’s boys didn’t counter until mid 4th and by then it was back to even and anyone’s game.
And don’t get me wrong, I’m a big fan of Lincoln Riley who’s still just a kid really and did a brilliant job this year.  But Kirby Smart really impressed me on Jan 1.  At times he was almost like a 12th player on the field, constantly adjusting and looking for advantages and making tweaks etc.  UGa has a real winner there - I SO WISH he and the Dawgs has pulled off the NC game against Saban, but that’s a pretty tall order.  UGa vs Bama might prove to be a very interesting cross division rivalry.  I’m betting they’ll meet in a few CCGs in coming years.

rolltidefan

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #258 on: January 13, 2018, 11:03:11 AM »
Actually, I was thinking P5 conferences only get conference champs in. I know this sounds like a rule to get ND in, but that's actually not my thought; it's to get the "little sisters of the poor" (end sarcasm) their shot. Also, in the last 10 years, I think ND would only qualify something like twice (once when undefeated, and once when #10 at 10-2). Or, it could be your way, which is just the highest ranked non-conference champ, but that defeats my purpose, which is to make the conference championship the primary goal for every P5 team. Or an interim step would be any non-P5 that is in the top 8 (which would reward quality OOC scheduling), and if no such team exists, then the highest ranked non-Champion.
And yes, this means some weak P5 champions will get in from time to time because of some oddities, but if they lose, who cares, and if they win (which would be really rare), that will mean they had to beat three top 6 teams. Is that so bad?
yes, it is. i don't want to see a .500 team have a shot at the playoffs.

back when the giants beat the undefeated pats, i hated it. it just confirmed to me that getting into the nfl playoff was to easy. whether that's because  there's too many teams, or the guranteed spots aren't well set up, or something else, or combination, i don't know and doesn't matter. 

with the disparity and dissimilarity in schedules in cfb, i can understand and agree with the thought that a 1 or even 2 loss team can be better and more deserving than even an undefeated, but that's about the max i'm willing to go.

i'd be perfectly fine saying conf champs get auto bid IF they can meet certain minimum requirements, like be ranked in top 10. i think that's a fair compromise. hell, it's what we're willing to give nd for bcs consideration, why not everyone?

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #259 on: January 13, 2018, 03:42:58 PM »
Having mediocre teams become champions is the entertainment end of the sliding scale.  The other end is the competition end - wanting the best team to be the champ.  

Neither end is perfect in isolation - but genuine competition, to me, is entertaining.  Seeing the best be identified as such.  Yes, they still need to play the games, but being "fair" and giving everyone a chance doesn't necessarily belong in this.

An underdog story is great....but not to crown a champion...unless that underdog truly earned its way.  UCF would be an obvious underdog story, except it's toughest game was vs. Memphis.  That's not earning your way.  

For all the moaning and bitching about LSU's 2007 2-loss NC, I'm stunned at the support for an expanded playoff.  2-loss champs would happen more and more often, with certainty.  

“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

bayareabadger

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #260 on: January 13, 2018, 05:51:43 PM »
Ehhh, Utah went from 2 undefeated seasons in 5 years to......nothing.  Highest finish ranked 17th since joining the PAC.  No division titles.  They don't matter.  Fun slant you tried to put on it, though.
TCU has done well, but 3 things on that:
1 - continuity at HC (Patterson)
2 - they're in the XII
3 - Texas has been hibernating


9-4, No. 24 in final poll
10-3, No. 17 final poll
9-4, No. 23
I suppose if it's nothing in terms of contending for a national title, sure. But not nothing. If that's nothing, most of the sport accomplishes nothing. (Also seems worth noting, Utah also benefitting from coach continuity, but anyway)

bayareabadger

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #261 on: January 13, 2018, 05:58:53 PM »
I kind of like the idea of the best 4 competing in a tournament.  Not sure I like sending UCF to the Peach, just to watch Toledo, Boise, FAU and Troy duke it out.
That split is interesting. It reminds me of a kid I knew in HS. He seemed real salty he wasn't getting to compete in spring football, but he also very much wanted a shot at a state track title. Do you take a playoff with a nice trophy at the end, or a chance at P5 pelts?
My gut is, the pelts thing is novel, but less essential. You can play Auburn in the regular season. The issue is the NYD bowl payout might be up in the air, so that money would have to stay in place to get a playoff done. 

CousinFreddie

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #262 on: January 13, 2018, 06:02:36 PM »
Ehhh, Utah went from 2 undefeated seasons in 5 years to......nothing.  Highest finish ranked 17th since joining the PAC.  No division titles.  They don't matter.  Fun slant you tried to put on it, though.
TCU has done well, but 3 things on that:
1 - continuity at HC (Patterson)
2 - they're in the XII
3 - Texas has been hibernating
And yet they've beaten teams from the B1G, SEC and PAC in bowl games in recent years.  They hold their own outside the XII too.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #263 on: January 13, 2018, 08:55:34 PM »
Utah has defeated each of the last three Michigan coaches. With Whittingham. 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

MaximumSam

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #264 on: January 13, 2018, 09:34:30 PM »
Utah and Florida both became a lot of nothing when Urban left

TyphonInc

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #265 on: January 13, 2018, 09:44:55 PM »
That split is interesting. It reminds me of a kid I knew in HS. He seemed real salty he wasn't getting to compete in spring football, but he also very much wanted a shot at a state track title. Do you take a playoff with a nice trophy at the end, or a chance at P5 pelts?
My gut is, the pelts thing is novel, but less essential. You can play Auburn in the regular season. The issue is the NYD bowl payout might be up in the air, so that money would have to stay in place to get a playoff done.
It would be a P5 belt, co-G5 National title, and a whole lot of Money. In this scenario in the end I think the money wins in the getting done perspective, even if the athletes may prefer playing in the tournament.  

 

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