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Topic: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #70 on: August 20, 2019, 11:29:12 PM »
No one should be completely dismissed, but if we're going to take into account (these are just items that have been listed in this thread) strength of schedule, OL quality, offensive playcalling, etc to differentiate between two guys from Ohio State and Georgia, then the same should be used for those in the lower divisions.


Rice was great at MVSU.  Huge numbers.  But I have to say again, was his career better than Troy Edwards?  Trevor Insley?  Corey Davis?  Ryan Broyles?
There's precisely one advantage Rice has over these others:  he was the best, most productive WR in NFL history.  



All-Time All-Fame Team.  
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #71 on: August 20, 2019, 11:34:28 PM »
Sanders was stupid good.  Moss and White were great.  No one is saying otherwise.  But they should be on this type of team solely based on their college careers, and the're plainly not.  That's all I've been saying. 





Wouldn't it be amazing to read over another blah-blah college football fan click-bait yum-yum article and be pleasantly surprised?  To learn something?  To be shown a new idea that has a strong rationale behind it?  Wouldn't that be something?
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #72 on: August 20, 2019, 11:40:21 PM »
This whole discussion reminds me of the 2nd-generation football players always getting the benefit of the doubt.  Oh his dad was famous, w-whe-well then!!!  They must be good, too!  Let's focus and dwell on him much closer because his last name is familiar!



It's just so stupid.



Come to think of it, another parallel is how each new famous actress is "hot" and the most desirable.  It's a revolving door - the dream girl - with each most beautiful one replaced by the next.  Even if they're not especially attractive, just normal attractive - their hotness is braided into their fame.  The more famous, the "hotter" they look, according to the masses.  A name that comes to mind is Jennifer Lawrence.  Take away the fame, she's a ho-hum attractive woman.  But A-list actress Jennifer Lawrence is soooo sexy!  


« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 11:57:10 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
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Kris60

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #73 on: August 20, 2019, 11:56:24 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2019, 11:29:12 PM
No one should be completely dismissed, but if we're going to take into account (these are just items that have been listed in this thread) strength of schedule, OL quality, offensive playcalling, etc to differentiate between two guys from Ohio State and Georgia, then the same should be used for those in the lower divisions.


Rice was great at MVSU.  Huge numbers.  But I have to say again, was his career better than Troy Edwards?  Trevor Insley?  Corey Davis?  Ryan Broyles?
There's precisely one advantage Rice has over these others:  he was the best, most productive WR in NFL history. 



All-Time All-Fame Team. 
So, if you have a vote in this and you are looking at these 5 WR with these insane stats over different levels of college football is it really the worst thing in the world to take into consideration one went on to a HOF career in the NFL and the other 4 didn’t.  Because if you don’t separate them that way then you have to separate them another way, right?  And who’s to say the other way you choose to separate them is any better than the NFL way?
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2019, 11:58:27 PM »
Because whichever way I separated them would have occurred while they were in college.  And yes, that automatically makes it a better way.



And again, like if the Heisman simply changed their claim, if it was renamed the All-Time All-Fame College football team, my point would be moot.  But if they're going to claim it's a college all-american team, then the NFL aspect does not belong.  


It's not complicated.
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Kris60

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #75 on: August 21, 2019, 12:19:36 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2019, 11:58:27 PM
Because whichever way I separated them would have occurred while they were in college.  And yes, that automatically makes it a better way.



And again, like if the Heisman simply changed their claim, if it was renamed the All-Time All-Fame College football team, my point would be moot.  But if they're going to claim it's a college all-american team, then the NFL aspect does not belong. 


It's not complicated.
Lol.  No, it IS complicated.  If it weren’t then everyone would read it and go, “Yep, no arguments from me” and move on.  No one does that. CBS didn’t lay out any specific criteria for selecting anyone.  They just rolled out their All Time All American Team.  Jerry Rice was an All American.  Randy Moss was an All American.  As far as I can tell that was the only criteria you had to meet for being chosen.  The rest of it was deciding how you wanted to separate all of the players over the last 150 years who earned AA status.  That’s pretty daunting.
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Kris60

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #76 on: August 21, 2019, 12:28:47 AM »
Besides any of that don’t guys like Frazier and Anthony Carter sort of counterbalance what you are saying about guys like Rice and Moss?  There are probably plenty of guys in their mid-20’s who saw that list and said, “Who the f*** is Anthony Carter?”  Or Hugh Green, or whomever.  You said it would be nice to be pleasantly surprised to learn something.  I bet somebody learned something about Anthony Carter if they took the time to research who he was and what he did.

Lazy would have been a roster of NFL HOF’ers or just P5 guys or just insane stat guys.  But instead it’s a little bit of everything.  It’s not perfect, but it really isn’t lazy.
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MrNubbz

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #77 on: August 21, 2019, 12:35:03 AM »
Quote from: ELA on August 19, 2019, 10:57:25 AM
Here's a list of Heisman winners, who were also 1st round picks in the merger era, who I think you can safely say were busts.

Johnny Manziel
I can honestly say most of us Browns fans who followed college weren't happy - I was livid.You just knew his free lance,play by the seat of your pants play coupled with his pixie frame had disaster written all over it.Same reason Drew mentioned about Tebow - the cold,stark reality hit them - they were in the NFL
Quote from: Kris60 on August 19, 2019, 11:39:50 AM
I’ll tell ya a guy who I thought would be a stud in the NFL who ended up doing nothing was Trent Richardson.
Did I mention I am a Browns fan?But I didn't see him falling on his face like that.With Manziel it was obvious,scripted and fore ordained
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 01:02:03 AM by MrNubbz »
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MrNubbz

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #78 on: August 21, 2019, 12:55:41 AM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on August 20, 2019, 04:50:39 PM
No one in the history of the damn sport has ever dominated like that. On any level. Barry Sanders is the greatest RB who has ever lived or ever will live.
We've already had this discussion awhile back,in depth.Comparing teams played for,stats,schedules,records.Yes Barry's in the argument,he was very good - especially on artificial turf.Barry Sanders would make me miss and look pathetic doing it.He would juke me so bad I'd break my ankles.Earl Campbell would break my neck - for real.Watching Earl play was like watching a bull fight - you were giddy and grateful you were in the stands.To a lesser extent Bo Jackson,shame he broke his hip.Hell off the top of my head Peyton,Brown,Simpson,Tomlinson,Martin,Dickerson.Gale Sayers could change directions seemingly in mid air like no one I'd ever seen.Just like Dr J in hoops he did things that stats don't bear out.Jimmy Brown carried 4-5 Philadelphia Eagles the last 5 yards into the endzone.We see and remember what we want to.Barry is in the converastion but it doesn't begin or end with him
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 01:32:44 AM by MrNubbz »
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Cincydawg

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #79 on: August 21, 2019, 08:36:33 AM »
They should have a Manziel Award, similar to the Fulmer Cup, perhaps.

I don't know a single soul who thought Manziel would be other than a huge bust, and he was worse than most of us expected.

I rather liked Mayfield, I didn't think the comparisons were apt.

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MrNubbz

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #80 on: August 21, 2019, 09:39:23 AM »
No they weren't.Mayfield is more the size of Russell Wilson or Drew Brees.With a style of say Favre.Manziel was the size of Kyle Murray w/o the discipline
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FearlessF

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #81 on: August 21, 2019, 10:38:14 AM »
Over the years, fans in other conferences have tried to denigrate Sanders’ season by bashing OSU’s strength of schedule. That’s ridiculous.
You’re muttering to yourself, Big Ten/SEC fan, about the Big 12 not playing defense. It’s true that even in the 1980s, the Big 8 was a rootin’ tootin’ conference, though its raw defensive rankings were dragged down by — who else? — Kansas, along with a pre-Bill Snyder Kansas State. But! Sanders faced #16 scoring defense Nebraska (189 rushing yards, 5.4 per carry, 4 rushing TDs), #20 Colorado (174, 7.3, 4), #30 Oklahoma (215, 5.5, 2), and three other above-average defenses.
That’s as many top-30 scoring defenses as Herschel Walker faced in his 1,752-yard Heisman season. And the same number of top-60 defenses. Just for one example.
Quick interjection: Look what Sanders did to Nebraska:

“That Nebraska thing was crazy, and that was a good Nebraska defense,” Jones says. “They had us down. We’re down like 40 points or something, and I’m thinking, ‘They’re gonna score a hundred on us.’ And they couldn’t tackle him, and it ends up 63-42. It’s the most points ever scored against an Osborne team for a long time, and he was just running all over them.”


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