header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6   Go Down
Author

Topic: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team

 (Read 4369 times)

Mdot21

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 14330
  • Liked:
Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2019, 08:36:07 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2019, 07:27:12 PM
My outrage is merely me entertaining the content and finding it an unworthy effort. 
Look at some of the specifics.  One of these people voted Brian Urlacher onto the all-time all-american team at LB...a position he didn't even play in college.  That's embarrassing.
I guess someone thought Michael Irvin was one of the 2 best college WRs ever based on his.....flamboyance?!?  It's a joke.



If I'm indignant about such things, it's because I, a leisure-time college football aficionado, would create a better team with little effort.  Not  the "right" team, but a much more valid team.  But it also doesn't matter.



Idk what anything has to do with hipster wokeness when it comes to this - you're way off.  There is zero connection between an all-american team and his NFL career, as one comes before the other.  So being anti-NFL career when it comes to a list like this is plainly prudent. 
I can almost guarantee you the people who did the lists probably don't or barely ever even watched college football. As big as college football is, it's still a very niche thing. The NFL is still far and away the most popular sport and sports league in America. Which is probably why all this NFL career bias is coming into that list.
Logged

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18839
  • Liked:
Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2019, 09:26:53 PM »
Hmmmm....maybe they should employ people who DO/DID watch college football and are within said niche.  Crazy talk.
Logged
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18839
  • Liked:
Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2019, 09:29:45 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on August 20, 2019, 04:50:39 PM
. On any level. Barry Sanders is the greatest RB who has ever lived or ever will live.
Then how did such ordinary RBs match his numbers?  



It's interesting.
Herschel backers rely on volume for their argument.
Bo backers rely on physical tools for theirs.
Barry backers rely on his....running style?  Because you can't just cite his stats, because mere mortals match and exceed them in equal volume.
Logged
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6045
  • Liked:
Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #59 on: August 20, 2019, 09:39:33 PM »
OAM, one thing you're leaving out is that the mere mortals you cited as "matching" Barry Sanders did so over more than one season, carrying the ball far fewer times per game.  They were part of more balanced offenses who spread the ball around to more people.

Sanders was the largest part of the oSu offense the year he was a starter.  That was not an award-winning O-line in front of him.  Defenses could key on him with confidence.  He carried the ball a lot.  Yeah, the ball isn't' heavy, but 40 carries a game over the course of one season is a lot harder on a player than 15-20 carries a game spread over two or three seasons.

What's more likely: that an overwhelming percentage of neutral observers have wrongly concluded that--although he only started for one season--Barry Sanders is, or is at least very close to being, the best running back to play college football, or that you have an inexplicable blind spot on this issue?
Logged
Play Like a Champion Today

Kris60

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 2514
  • Liked:
Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #60 on: August 20, 2019, 09:53:44 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2019, 09:29:45 PM
Then how did such ordinary RBs match his numbers? 



It's interesting.
Herschel backers rely on volume for their argument.
Bo backers rely on physical tools for theirs.
Barry backers rely on his....running style?  Because you can't just cite his stats, because mere mortals match and exceed them in equal volume.
To put it in the simplest of terms, yeah.  I think most people think Sanders got his 6.8 YPC in more spectacular fashion than Love so that makes him a better back.  That might not be fair.  It might not even be right, but I do think that is the general belief.
Logged

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18839
  • Liked:
Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #61 on: August 20, 2019, 09:56:05 PM »
He had the best season, sure.    But his lack of career volume isn't my fault, lol.



Now we're touting his number of carries in a season.....51st all-time.  Incrementally better than Melvin Gordon's season.  That's great.  Gordon wasn't on anyone's ballot.  Hmm, funny....he hasn't had much of an NFL career thus far.



I'll bet you a dollar he'd be on the list if he was rushing for 1,500 yds each of his first few NFL seasons.  Silly me.


Logged
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18839
  • Liked:
Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #62 on: August 20, 2019, 09:56:50 PM »
Quote from: Kris60 on August 20, 2019, 09:53:44 PM
To put it in the simplest of terms, yeah.  I think most people think Sanders got his 6.8 YPC in more spectacular fashion than Love so that makes him a better back.  That might not be fair.  It might not even be right, but I do think that is the general belief.
Right.....talk about a blind spot.  Barry Sanders' no gain and lost yardage carries always seem to get swept under the rug.
Logged
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25169
  • Liked:
Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #63 on: August 20, 2019, 10:16:41 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2019, 09:56:05 PM
He had the best season, sure.    But his lack of career volume isn't my fault, lol.



Now we're touting his number of carries in a season.....51st all-time.  Incrementally better than Melvin Gordon's season.  That's great.  Gordon wasn't on anyone's ballot.  Hmm, funny....he hasn't had much of an NFL career thus far.



I'll bet you a dollar he'd be on the list if he was rushing for 1,500 yds each of his first few NFL seasons.  Silly me.



Been to two Pro Bowl things, whatever that means. I'd take Gordon in college over Sanders in a heartbeat.


I'd also take Jonathan Taylor. Right now. Thankfully I don't have to. He's mine.
Logged
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Kris60

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 2514
  • Liked:
Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #64 on: August 20, 2019, 10:59:24 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2019, 09:56:05 PM
He had the best season, sure.    But his lack of career volume isn't my fault, lol.



Now we're touting his number of carries in a season.....51st all-time.  Incrementally better than Melvin Gordon's season.  That's great.  Gordon wasn't on anyone's ballot.  Hmm, funny....he hasn't had much of an NFL career thus far.



I'll bet you a dollar he'd be on the list if he was rushing for 1,500 yds each of his first few NFL seasons.  Silly me.



Yeah, I agree with you.  I don’t like that NFL success is taken into account but I can understand the thought process if it is. In college football there are big gaps in talent level and also huge differences in scheme and philosophy.  I can see the temptation to peak into the NFL years to see who was still really good when the competition was at its best and the talent more evenly dispersed.  I also don’t love that team success plays such a vital role either.  Is Tommie Frazier really the All-Time CFB QB if Nebraska is winning 8 games and playing in the Sun Bowl while he’s there?  Is Troy Davis given a lot more consideration if Iowa St wins the national title during his time there?

There really isn’t a right or wrong set of criteria because they didn’t really give any criteria for picking them.


Logged

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18839
  • Liked:
Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2019, 11:00:10 PM »
He just had his first season over a 4.0 yard per carry average.  The point is that his epic college season + dramatic NFL success would = his name on one of these teams.
Logged
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18839
  • Liked:
Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #66 on: August 20, 2019, 11:03:25 PM »
Quote from: Kris60 on August 20, 2019, 10:59:24 PM
Yeah, I agree with you.  I don’t like that NFL success is taken into account but I can understand the thought process if it is. In college football there are big gaps in talent level and also huge differences in scheme and philosophy.  I can see the temptation to peak into the NFL years to see who was still really good when the competition was at its best and the talent more evenly dispersed. 



I could swallow this if guys like Frazier even got a chance in the NFL.  He's not the prototype, so thumbs down, forget him.
Logged
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Kris60

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 2514
  • Liked:
Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #67 on: August 20, 2019, 11:09:19 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2019, 11:03:25 PM
I could swallow this if guys like Frazier even got a chance in the NFL.  He's not the prototype, so thumbs down, forget him.
Yeah, but that’s like saying, “Well if every single college player got a NFL shot I could see it.”  That will never happen.  There’s no perfect way to pick these teams.  Taking into account a guy’s NFL success isn’t ideal but it also isn’t ideal to completely dismiss anyone who didn’t play at a P5 school.  
Logged

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 7849
  • Liked:
Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #68 on: August 20, 2019, 11:24:36 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on August 20, 2019, 08:36:07 PM
I can almost guarantee you the people who did the lists probably don't or barely ever even watched college football. As big as college football is, it's still a very niche thing. The NFL is still far and away the most popular sport and sports league in America. Which is probably why all this NFL career bias is coming into that list.
What would be the basis for the guarantee? Tell me all that you know about media hiring and how CBS works and who voted on this and all that. Or is the basis literally gonna be, "They thought Randy Moss and Reggie White were good."?

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2019, 09:26:53 PM
Hmmmm....maybe they should employ people who DO/DID watch college football and are within said niche.  Crazy talk.
They do. And to assume they don't is to play the game of internet make believe. You can certianly think those people are wrong, but to imagine they just called all the NFL staffers over and asked them would be like imagining you know more football than even a mid-grade coach, which is something that a lot of people do because internet make believe. 
Logged

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 7849
  • Liked:
Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #69 on: August 20, 2019, 11:27:44 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 20, 2019, 09:56:50 PM
Right.....talk about a blind spot.  Barry Sanders' no gain and lost yardage carries always seem to get swept under the rug.
I mean, it gets swept under because it's a topic without context. We don't track it closely. We don't track anyone else's either. So it's kind of an eye-test thing. 

And when you take his eye test in total, hey look, people thing he's stupid good. (If the argument is, career should matter more, I'm cool with that. We probably have to take Frazier off, though frankly, if one wanted to poke holes there, one could with ease)
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6   Go Up
« previous next »
 
Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.
Smokey Record Hoodie

Smokey Record Hoodie