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Topic: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team

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ELA

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2019, 12:22:33 PM »
and Tony Mandarich
I'd out him the box of having a reason for falling short.  Unlike injuries or off field issues, his was due to stopping doing the thing that made him so good.

I think the guys like Leinart or Salaam who were great in college, expected to be great in the pros, and just weren't, for no real reason, are the most interesting.

Mdot21

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2019, 12:42:09 PM »
RG3 should’ve been an all-time great.

He went to a coach that never wanted him, he suffered nasty injuries, and he also let the hype get to his head. His ego helped bring him down. Just a shame though. He was SO talented.

He’s basically the reverse Tebow. He had the talent but not the character or the leadership. Tebow just didn’t have the talent. If you had Tebow’s character and intangibles in RG3’s talent you would’ve had something incredible. 

FearlessF

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2019, 12:55:54 PM »
I'd out him the box of having a reason for falling short.  Unlike injuries or off field issues, his was due to stopping doing the thing that made him so good.

pretty sure Bosworth had the same issue

besides the glass shoulders
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2019, 01:38:10 PM »
I guess I'm just tired of things not being honest about what they are.  Like the Heisman claiming to go to "the most outstanding college football player" when it obviously doesn't and hasn't.  


This CBS team should be called the All-Time All-Fame Team or something along those lines.  I firmly believe that if you kept everything the same for a guy like Randy Moss - his numbers, highlights, all of it, but he was an NFL bust and out in 3 years, HE WOULD NOT BE ON THIS TEAM.  There is no doubt in my mind.  Another ultra-productive college WR who did succeed in the NFL would replace him...which is fine, if only they were honest about it.
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Mdot21

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2019, 02:07:04 PM »
I guess I'm just tired of things not being honest about what they are.  Like the Heisman claiming to go to "the most outstanding college football player" when it obviously doesn't and hasn't. 


This CBS team should be called the All-Time All-Fame Team or something along those lines.  I firmly believe that if you kept everything the same for a guy like Randy Moss - his numbers, highlights, all of it, but he was an NFL bust and out in 3 years, HE WOULD NOT BE ON THIS TEAM.  There is no doubt in my mind.  Another ultra-productive college WR who did succeed in the NFL would replace him...which is fine, if only they were honest about it.
Agree 100%. Again.

Mark Ingram winning it over Suh back in 2009 still pisses me off. Ingram was a nice player on the best, most talent loaded team in the country. He wasn't the best player in the country or remotely even close to it. Suh was hands down, far and away the best, most dominating player in all of college football that year.

Moss spent 1 year in D-1AA and another year playing a complete joke of a schedule in the MAC. Marshall played one P5 team all year. Moss dominating that joke of a schedule isn't impressive to me. At all. He should've legitimately put up 40 TD's vs that schedule. And you're 100% right again. If he had been an NFL bust he wouldn't come anywhere near this list. His spot on the list is solely because of his amazing NFL career. Ditto Jerry Rice. Neither belong here.

FearlessF

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2019, 02:51:36 PM »
I agree with you again.

Bo Jackson is overrated, overhyped. Whatever you want to call it. As a football player. And he's overhyped/overrated precisely because he was a freak of nature athlete. A human being is not suppose to be that big, that fast, and that strong. There have only been a few guys like Bo Jackson since Bo Jackson. And they were all the Diet version. Tyrone Wheatley, Adrian Peterson, and Leonard Fournette are the only guys coming to me off the top of my head right now. In that 6'1, 220-235 range with incredible physiques, ridiculous power, and speed all in one package. 
Brooks Koepka and Bo Jackson in pro-am at the BMW Championship 2019 - YouTube
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SFBadger96

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2019, 02:59:47 PM »
I'm on board with the too much emphasis on the pros argument. College football isn't the end of football, and yes, Moss and Rice (and others on the lists) were among the GOATs, but not in college they weren't. So if this is a college list, then it should be measured on college football metrics, which basically means major college football metrics, e.g., P5+ND, and the other major independents of years past. Jim Brown is relegated to the honorable mention list for his lack of playing time; if he isn't higher, then surely Rice and Moss shouldn't be as high.

Barry Sanders is another one I question. Yes, great college player, yes one of the GOATs, but more than Archie Griffin, the only two-time Heisman winner? 

RB is a tough category as there are a lot of great players with impressive resumes. I could see moving Griffin up, and removing Bo Jackson from the 2nd team. 

Do we care if they played through their senior year? For a college list, that should help, not hurt, their case? Tony Dorsett was a Heisman winner and led Pittsburgh (!) to a national championship (I know, Pittsburgh claims 9, but '76 is the only modern-ish one). Anthony Thompson has a decent argument; Charles White, Ricky Williams? 

And that sets aside the old guys, like Glen Davis, or Doak Walker.

FearlessF

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2019, 03:38:21 PM »
stats are great for measuring greatness, but I always default to the eyeball test of the highlight reel of the greatest plays by these great players

this allows for the old guys with Red Grange and Gale Sayers and Earl Campbell to stack up with players like Barry Sanders.  I don't discredit Barry Sanders because he played behind Thurman Thomas and didn't get the carrier carries of Ricky Williams
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bayareabadger

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2019, 04:24:04 PM »
I'm on board with the too much emphasis on the pros argument. College football isn't the end of football, and yes, Moss and Rice (and others on the lists) were among the GOATs, but not in college they weren't. So if this is a college list, then it should be measured on college football metrics, which basically means major college football metrics, e.g., P5+ND, and the other major independents of years past. Jim Brown is relegated to the honorable mention list for his lack of playing time; if he isn't higher, then surely Rice and Moss shouldn't be as high.

Barry Sanders is another one I question. Yes, great college player, yes one of the GOATs, but more than Archie Griffin, the only two-time Heisman winner?

RB is a tough category as there are a lot of great players with impressive resumes. I could see moving Griffin up, and removing Bo Jackson from the 2nd team.

Do we care if they played through their senior year? For a college list, that should help, not hurt, their case? Tony Dorsett was a Heisman winner and led Pittsburgh (!) to a national championship (I know, Pittsburgh claims 9, but '76 is the only modern-ish one). Anthony Thompson has a decent argument; Charles White, Ricky Williams?

And that sets aside the old guys, like Glen Davis, or Doak Walker.
The griffin part reminds me of the nits we can pick.

That second Heisman year, he was the fourth-leading rusher among P5 backs and 500 yards behind a guy from USC. He only scored four TDs.

The point is, there will always be nits. There will always be someone who we can complain about.

FearlessF

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2019, 05:24:52 PM »
yup, I was a huge Buckeye fan back then and a Archie fan, but he didn't deserve the 2nd
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2019, 09:08:14 PM »
The question isn't HOW you rate the quality of a college football player's college career, it's that you take the time to actually do it.  These voters and people inside the business go through the motions and pick name guys.  Many are name guys because of their NFL fame.



My problem is people being paid to do a fun/easy job (if you love college football) and they don't do it well.  
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2019, 09:16:34 PM »
On the topic of RBs, though, Barry Sanders ran for half as many yards as Ron Dayne did. 
Barry Sanders started 1 season.
Barry Sanders has approximately the same carries, yards (and yds per carry, obviously) of Bryce Love.  Bet you didn't know that.
Other RBs with basically the same numbers are Warrick Dunn, Ezekiel Elliott, and Tevin Coleman.  And they all destroy Sanders in receiving production.





He had a great year.  But putting Sanders at the top of the heap for college careers is like valuing Felix Jones over Darren McFadden (Arkansas).  It's like picking a relief pitcher to start for the all-time MLB all-stars. 
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 09:24:24 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2019, 09:41:06 PM »
On the topic of RBs, though, Barry Sanders ran for half as many yards as Ron Dayne did. 
Barry Sanders started 1 season.
Barry Sanders has approximately the same carries, yards (and yds per carry, obviously) of Bryce Love.  Bet you didn't know that.
Other RBs with basically the same numbers are Warrick Dunn, Ezekiel Elliott, and Tevin Coleman.  And they all destroy Sanders in receiving production.





He had a great year.  But putting Sanders at the top of the heap for college careers is like valuing Felix Jones over Darren McFadden (Arkansas).  It's like picking a relief pitcher to start for the all-time MLB all-stars.
Our first disagreement in this thread.

Barry Sanders didn't just have a great year. He had the best single season any college football player has ever had. And I do not think it's really even close. The guy had 2,850 rushing yards and averaged 7.8 yards per rush. Oh yeah, he also scored 44 touchdowns.

I don't think you can really hold it against him for not having great career stats. He played in an era where most guys stayed 4 years and didn't play very much as true freshmen. Well, Barry left after 3 years and his freshman year he barely played. He barely played as a true freshman, he was mostly a special teams player. He was Thurman Thomas' back-up the next year and he had his moments, but Thurman got the bulk of the carries and was a 1st team All-American that year in 1987.

It's silly to compare any of those guys to Barry Sanders. He was so obviously so much better than any of them. Bryce Love has 30 rushing TD's in his entire 4 year career. Barry Sanders had 42 rushing touchdowns in a single season.

CWSooner

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Re: CBS 150 Years of CF All-Time All-American Team
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2019, 09:58:11 PM »
pretty sure Bosworth had the same issue

besides the glass shoulders
I'm pretty sure you're right.
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