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Topic: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation

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Cincydawg

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #112 on: October 01, 2019, 05:27:17 PM »
I had not considered the potential for local offers from car dealerships etc., my bad.  

Now I'm worried.

utee94

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #113 on: October 01, 2019, 06:05:02 PM »
I had not considered the potential for local offers from car dealerships etc., my bad. 

Now I'm worried.

This is how cheater programs funnel money to players anyway.  They give them fake jobs at car dealerships owned by Friends of the Program, and don't make them show up.  I'm not sure this aspect is really all that different except now, even programs that have shied away from cheating, will be able to do it above the table.

rolltidefan

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #114 on: October 01, 2019, 06:08:29 PM »
The NCAA is going to lose this battle.  California will not be the only state and many will follow. 
i've already offered up my expert legal opinion* once, and got promptly shut down by... someone, maybe you @Entropy , i can't remember who is a lawyer here.

but some attorneys on reddit seem to think the ncaa has a decent leg to stand on with the commerce clause. this is a copy/paste from one such post on there, with a direct quote from a case concerning the commerce clause test:

"When a state statute directly regulates or discriminates against interstate commerce, or when its effect is to favor in-state economic interests over out-of-state interests, we have generally struck down the statute without further inquiry. When, however, a statute has only indirect effects on interstate commerce and regulates evenhandedly, we have examined whether the State's interest is legitimate and whether the burden on interstate commerce clearly exceeds the local benefits."
Miller vs NCAA

"Translated, if a state statute affects interstate commerce (even if that's not the intention), it can be ruled unconstitutional."


the miller vs ncaa case dealt with a state enacting a law that affected ncaa rules/regulations and how one state's laws affected other state's institutions and how the ncaa treated them vs others. not all that different from the cal law. the 9th circuit court (which this law, if challenged in court, will be seen in 9th circuit, or so i'm told) ruled in ncaa favor, and attorneys and people much smarter than me think this has precedent. other, also much smarter than me, think otherwise. point is, i don't think it's a slam dunk either way.

my humble guess is that by the time all this is done, likeness, etc will be gainful for the students, but with major limitations in amounts and how-to's, etc.

* - all that "expert legal opinion" is fully tongue in cheek, i am clearly not an attorney, and have no expertise in the legal realm.

utee94

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #115 on: October 01, 2019, 06:11:02 PM »
i've already offered up my expert legal opinion* once, and got promptly shut down by... someone, maybe you @Entropy , i can't remember who is a lawyer here.

but some attorneys on reddit seem to think the ncaa has a decent leg to stand on with the commerce clause. this is a copy/paste from one such post on there, with a direct quote from a case concerning the commerce clause test:

"When a state statute directly regulates or discriminates against interstate commerce, or when its effect is to favor in-state economic interests over out-of-state interests, we have generally struck down the statute without further inquiry. When, however, a statute has only indirect effects on interstate commerce and regulates evenhandedly, we have examined whether the State's interest is legitimate and whether the burden on interstate commerce clearly exceeds the local benefits."
Miller vs NCAA

"Translated, if a state statute affects interstate commerce (even if that's not the intention), it can be ruled unconstitutional."


the miller vs ncaa case dealt with a state enacting a law that affected ncaa rules/regulations and how one state's laws affected other state's institutions and how the ncaa treated them vs others. not all that different from the cal law. the 9th circuit court (which this law, if challenged in court, will be seen in 9th circuit, or so i
m told) ruled in ncaa favor, and attorneys and people much smarter than me think this has precedent. other, also much smarter than me, think otherwise. point it, i don't think it's a slam dunk either way.

my humble guess is that by the time all this is done, likeness, etc will be gainful for the students, but with major limitations in amounts and how-to's, etc.

* - all that "expert legal opinion" is fully tongue in cheek, i am clearly not an attorney, and have no expertise in the legal realm.

That's all well and good-- until the bipartisan-supported Federal bill passes.

rolltidefan

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #116 on: October 01, 2019, 06:11:39 PM »
That's all well and good-- until the bipartisan-supported Federal bill passes.

and that's fine too.

utee94

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #117 on: October 01, 2019, 06:18:20 PM »
and that's fine too.

Heh.  We're all just along for the ride, as always.  It'll be interesting to see how it develops, and if anything changes fundamentally.  

847badgerfan

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #118 on: October 02, 2019, 06:59:14 AM »
From the other thread:



I think the schools will want to protect the multi billion dollar pie

it's a slippery slope that slides to the unknown

guys holding big money don't like the unknown because they aren't assured the money won't go away

you know, like the end of the sport

I would guess the networks are also worried about the unknown and how it will affect their revenue
Most of that pie goes back to the students, FYI. There are close to a half billion athletes at NCAA schools, and the total revenue is $14 Billion. Add up the costs for tuition, fees, books, housing, food, training, medical staff, etc. and this becomes clear. Add it up.


But, the Governor of California claims that the athletes "put their lives on the line* and get nothing".




* He thinks athletes are forced to fight in Afghanistan too, apparently.
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bayareabadger

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #119 on: October 02, 2019, 07:52:02 AM »
From the other thread:

Most of that pie goes back to the students, FYI. There are close to a half billion athletes at NCAA schools, and the total revenue is $14 Billion. Add up the costs for tuition, fees, books, housing, food, training, medical staff, etc. and this becomes clear. Add it up.


But, the Governor of California claims that the athletes "put their lives on the line* and get nothing".




* He thinks athletes are forced to fight in Afghanistan too, apparently.
Can I see those numbers added up? At Wisconsin scholarships were just short of half the facilities budget, 30 percent of what was spent on staff overall. The 11 football staffers and four basketball staffers earn 74 percent of the total scholarship payout. (I also assume that half billion includes the ones paying their own way, correct?)

Here's the thing, if the olympic model happens, it'll turn out, lots of players can't get the money they think they can. They'll go back to taking their scholarship and be pleased to have it. And the ones that don't have a scholarship and enjoy some perks, they'll like that too. 

As for the getting money to being forced into all this. Paul Chryst would probably coach UW for $100,000 a year. Most of these guys would accept reasonable money. But they get unreasonable money. Because it's a business, and that dictates it. It's all a big, giant beautiful business, up until the bottom part. 

utee94

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #120 on: October 02, 2019, 08:00:36 AM »
Can I see those numbers added up? At Wisconsin scholarships were just short of half the facilities budget, 30 percent of what was spent on staff overall. The 11 football staffers and four basketball staffers earn 74 percent of the total scholarship payout. (I also assume that half billion includes the ones paying their own way, correct?)

Here's the thing, if the olympic model happens, it'll turn out, lots of players can't get the money they think they can. They'll go back to taking their scholarship and be pleased to have it. And the ones that don't have a scholarship and enjoy some perks, they'll like that too.

As for the getting money to being forced into all this. Paul Chryst would probably coach UW for $100,000 a year. Most of these guys would accept reasonable money. But they get unreasonable money. Because it's a business, and that dictates it. It's all a big, giant beautiful business, up until the bottom part.

Just to clarify, I don't think anyone's talking about removing the scholarships, and one reason is that you're right-- lots of players would receive very little endorsement money.  These would be 3rd party payments above and beyond, and completely separate from, whatever the schools are already providing.

That's a major reason this particular path appeals to some university administrators and coaches-- it would be business as usual for the schools.  Zero implications to their budgets or their liability.

Kris60

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #121 on: October 02, 2019, 08:01:02 AM »
I actually think this will be a bigger deal for basketball than football because they are more marketable because they don’t wear helmets.

If I’m a fan of Oregon and Maryland I’m licking my chops.  They have prominent alumni who run major sporting apparel companies.  We keep hearing about local car dealerships offering kids a little money to appear in local commercials.  Nike and Under Armour have the ability to offer much more than that.

Kris60

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #122 on: October 02, 2019, 08:06:24 AM »
Just to clarify, I don't think anyone's talking about removing the scholarships, and one reason is that you're right-- lots of players would receive very little endorsement money.  These would be 3rd party payments above and beyond, and completely separate from, whatever the schools are already providing.

That's a major reason this particular path appeals to some university administrators and coaches-- it would be business as usual for the schools.  Zero implications to their budgets or their liability.
Well, I’m not exactly sure ZERO implications is accurate.  If I’m a local businessman who does very well himself but still isn’t Bill Gates then maybe I give $50k a year to my school.  If approached maybe I can start giving some of that directly to players for endorsement opportunities but I may not have the means to give $50k for endorsements and then give my usual $50k to the university.  I might just have to tell the AD, “Look I have $50k set aside to give to the athletic department.  I can funnel that anyway you choose but I can only afford to give my usual $50k.”

Temp430

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #123 on: October 02, 2019, 08:08:25 AM »
The scholarship athlete's pay is their scholarship, medical, room and board, and all the other goodies.  If that's not enough for them they are free to take their wares elsewhere which many do after a couple years.
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Kris60

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #124 on: October 02, 2019, 08:11:26 AM »
The scholarship athlete's pay is their scholarship, room and board, and all the other goodies.  If that's not enough for them them they are free to take their wares elsewhere which many do after a couple years.
The counter to that though is the same is true for someone there on an academic scholarship and they aren’t punished by anyone if they earn a little extra money for their image and likeness being used.

utee94

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Re: California Asembly passed bill to allow players likeness compensation
« Reply #125 on: October 02, 2019, 08:12:59 AM »
Well, I’m not exactly sure ZERO implications is accurate.  If I’m a local businessman who does very well himself but still isn’t Bill Gates then maybe I give $50k a year to my school.  If approached maybe I can start giving some of that directly to players for endorsement opportunities but I may not have the means to give $50k for endorsements and then give my usual $50k to the university.  I might just have to tell the AD, “Look I have $50k set aside to give to the athletic department.  I can funnel that anyway you choose but I can only afford to give my usual $50k.”

Very good point, and another example of the many layers of nuance this will have.  I'd expect the richest schools would be able to absorb it one way or the other.  The middlin ones would end up making some choices, and the poorest schools already don't benefit from such donations, and wouldn't in the future state, either.

 

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