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Topic: Better job?

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OrangeAfroMan

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Better job?
« on: May 27, 2021, 06:36:00 PM »
ESPNtheOcho is asking if OU or Texas is the better job.
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With all of the big-boy programs in fertile recruiting grounds or adjacent to them, aren't all the jobs the same?  You have every edge, all the dollars, etc.
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It makes me think that the best helmet program job has the least-psychotic fanbase.  Not just regular fandom, but like irrational insanity fans with influence.
This is why I think Texas is a much worse job than OU.  This isn't a case of belittling the pressure to win in Norman at all, but from afar, it seems to me that UTA has a bunch of big belt-buckle alums with endlessly deep pockets shaking hands and winking a lot behind the scenes.  If'n yer not winnin', yer outta here. 
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Florida has a pretty irrational fanbase.  Alabama.  I assume OSU and UM do, too.  Tennessee has a delusional fanbase.  I don't think anyone out west has anything close to what I'm describing here. 
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Are there other batspit crazy fanbases that make great jobs less so?  Above and beyond the 'normal' helmet program?
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Better job?
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2021, 07:13:11 PM »
The Ohio State fan base, the ones I've known, are pretty reasonable.  They dislike all things SEC, but I get that, it's not delusional.

Most successful programs have a fan base over the top, or under the bottom.  USC might be an exception to the extent they are still that.

I'd rather be at Texas I think, a 9-4 season would be taken as "pretty decent" for now, at OU it might get you fired if it happened again.

And of course 9-4 with a win in the RRR is different than 9-4 with a loss.
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utee94

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Re: Better job?
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2021, 10:55:06 PM »
At Texas, getting your ass kicked regularly by OU gets you fired.

At OU, getting your ass kicked regularly by Texas gets you fired as well.  It just hasn't happened much in the past two decades.

People like to make out that there's some big difference between the two, and the "Big Hats with deep wallets" is certainly the story that the sports mediots love to sell.  But the only real difference, is that OU has been better than Texas for most of the past two decades. 

If Ohio State lost 7 or 8/10 to Michigan, would the coach survive?

If Florida lost 7 or 8/10 to Tennessee, would the coach survive?

If Alabama lost 7 or 8/10 to Auburn, would the coach survive?

Winning is the cure-all, and beating your rival is the curest-all.

« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 11:09:27 PM by utee94 »
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Cincydawg

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Re: Better job?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2021, 12:11:42 AM »
Richt was fired after averaging 9.4 wins a season because he didn't beat Florida consistently (and didn't win an NC).

Beating your rivals is indeed key.  The Texas coach has to beat OU 6 times out of 10, or so.  I think it's possible there, they can still recruit well.  But you can sign on when your main rival is in an upsurge and then you are pretty well hosed.  Auburn fired their coach for not beating Bama often enough with Bama in a near  historic run.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Better job?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2021, 03:13:18 AM »
Idk, David McWilliams got canned after beating OU 3 straight times.  He just stunk for a year and got fired, right after a SWC championship season.  
It's entirely possible Texas doesn't have braindead wealthy donors with 10-gallon hats and backroom handshakes....but I doubt it.
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ELA

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Re: Better job?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2021, 08:16:23 AM »
Michigan is weird.  The fan base expectations doesn't necessarily line up with the boosters.  The big money cares more about access than winning.  That's why Harbaugh is still there, and why RR was hated.  Not because he didn't win enough (although that made it easier/quicker), but he cut off a lot of access to the wrong people.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Better job?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2021, 08:20:36 AM »
That may be more commonplace than weird.  Perhaps mediocre coaches cling because they are good schoozers and good promisers.

I'd take Texas, expectations - for now - are lower.  There is no reason Texas can't be elite again that I can discern, unlike say USC or Tennessee or Michigan.
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GopherRock

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Re: Better job?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2021, 08:36:41 AM »
Glen Mason lost 8 of 10 against Wisconsin and 6 of 10 against Iowa (with a whole bunch of no-shows in those losses), and many of you called us crazy for sacking him.

It's the same reason why I don't understand why Little Jimmy's seat isn't nuclear-fusion hot in AA. Sometime he's gotta beat Ohio State.
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utee94

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Re: Better job?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2021, 08:42:34 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 28, 2021, 03:13:18 AM
Idk, David McWilliams got canned after beating OU 3 straight times.  He just stunk for a year and got fired, right after a SWC championship season. 
It's entirely possible Texas doesn't have braindead wealthy donors with 10-gallon hats and backroom handshakes....but I doubt it.

David McWilliams 5 seasons at Texas:

7-5
4-7
5-6
10-2
5-6

Which helmet school would keep a coach with those records?

I'm not saying Texas doesn't have braindead wealthy donors, I'm just saying Texas isn't any different than the other helmets.

Honestly, most non-helmets fire a coach with that kind of record.


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utee94

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Re: Better job?
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2021, 08:58:05 AM »
By comparison, here's what Florida recently did with Muschamp:


7-6
11-2
4-8
6-5 (fired before bowl game)

One really good season and three bad ones.  Looks basically the same as McWilliams at Texas.  So Florida's boosters must also be a bunch of braindead rich folks with... alligator skin boots I guess.

And I didn't say beating your rival but having a bad season made you impervious to getting fired at a helmet school,  I just said that getting whipped by your rival is a fast ticket to unemployment, even if you're turning in otherwise good seasons.  





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ELA

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Re: Better job?
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2021, 08:59:11 AM »
Quote from: GopherRock on May 28, 2021, 08:36:41 AM
Glen Mason lost 8 of 10 against Wisconsin and 6 of 10 against Iowa (with a whole bunch of no-shows in those losses), and many of you called us crazy for sacking him.

It's the same reason why I don't understand why Little Jimmy's seat isn't nuclear-fusion hot in AA. Sometime he's gotta beat Ohio State.
Well, we were talking helmet schools here.  As an MSU student during the JLS years (03-06), I know we discussed how we would kill to be Minnesota.  Dantonio obviously greatly exceeded that, but I don't think he had to
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Cincydawg

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Re: Better job?
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2021, 09:07:52 AM »
Fans can "justify" 9-4 IFF you beat your main rival, it's a solace obviously.  I'm not sure how long that lasts.  Hot seats get hot at major programs with 9-4 seasons.

Of course 10-20 years of doldrums tend to dampen expectations for a while also.

Imagine being a South Carolina fan, they are pretty rabid over there, they get into it, and they know they have little chance of beating their main rival any time soon.  At least Auburn pulls it off at times.
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utee94

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Re: Better job?
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2021, 09:10:50 AM »
Alabama:

Shula:
4-9
6-6
10-2
6-6 (fired before bowl game)

Dubose:
4-7
7-5
10-3
3-8  (fired)

Looks to me like Texas does pretty much what every other helmet school does when a coach has a shitty record, even if there's one good season mixed in.

And, as CD pointed out about Richt, Texas also does what every other school does, when you can't beat your main rival even with GOOD seasons.


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Cincydawg

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Re: Better job?
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2021, 09:16:17 AM »
Maybe Harbaugh gets something of a pass because Ohio State is on a near historic "run", even for OSU.  I could see that, logically, if logic plays a role here, sort of like South Carolina's situation (they have a new coach of course).  I don't know if Texas thinks that way about OU.

Georgia Tech would upset UGA every so often, usually in Athens, to meet somewhat lower expectations there.  I think now they've sort of given up on that point.
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