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Topic: BB Road trip to Rutgers
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CWSooner · « **Reply #28 on:** January 17, 2018, 07:32:41 PM »

Trains in Japan and Korea are useful and popular. I've traveled by rail in both countries.

Both are very densely populated and don't have much room to expand their highway systems.

I would guess that additional reasons that Europe, Japan, and Korea have better passenger rail than we do is that they have governments that historically have been less-responsive to the public will than we do, and that they value personal freedom, at least the "free to go where I want when I want" variety of personal freedom, less than we do.

GopherRock · « **Reply #29 on:** January 18, 2018, 12:29:37 AM »

Thanks for the writeup.

The problem with the hyperloop isn't the speed at which everything is going. It's the sudden stop when something goes wrong.

During the Bakken oil boom, BNSF spent a lot of Warren Buffet's money in Minnesota and North Dakota fixing some of the mistakes that BN's management made during their 80's extract-everything-possible-for-shareholders phase. Some of it was spent on re-installing double track on 10 miles of it just west of the Twin Cities that was pulled up in the early 80s. There was also a bad winter during that boom (2013?) that was hard on the heels of a bumper harvest. It swamped both BNSF and the CP (the two dominant rail carriers in the Dakotas), and they had an awful time recovering from it. There is more pipeline capacity in the area now, so there are a lot fewer oil trains going east on the River and St. Croix Subs.

The Empire Builder remains a critical service in the transportation-starved country of northern Montana. All the other land-based transport going east-west through Montana is focused on the I-90/94 corridor in southern Montana.

Also, I'd like to think a second Builder train set from the Twin Cities to Chicago, or an overnight sleeper service, would be a hit, but that's just me.

I'm going to be working in MnDOT's Rail office from mid-February to the end of May, which should be interesting.

Hawkinole · « **Reply #30 on:** January 18, 2018, 12:58:29 AM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on January 16, 2018, 03:41:12 PM

That said, here is the schedule information (assuming a trip tomorrow from Cleveland to New York):
The train leaves Cleveland at 5:50am and arrives at Penn Station in NYC at 6:23pm. That is a bit under 13 hours for a trip that didn't take me that long by car even with the snowstorm. Plus, you have to get up in the middle of the night to get to the train station in Cleveland at 0-dark-thirty.

I went on Mapquest to calculate the difference in travel time, between train and auto, Cleveland to NYC, and it's about 5-hours one-way. That is significant.
About 6-years ago we had a family vacation that included NYC. My daughter was in a gymnastics meet in West Virginia. We wanted the NYC experience. We traveled north to Harrisburg, and took a 200 mile commuter train to Penn Station. I arranged a hotel kitty-corner across the street. We wheeled the suitcases across the way upon arrival. It was such a great way to travel. We could sleep on the way in, and were well-rested and ready to go. I have fought the NYC traffic when I was a tour bus driver as a young guy. It is distressing and wears you out. That extra 10-hours RT might be a deal breaker on a train from Cleveland. But on a vacation Harrisburg to NYC, it was a deal maker. I didn't have to take a 2-hour nap in the hotel before walking to Time Square.
Medina, thanks for the report. It was a great article. Like you I was enamored with Gator's reports, as well.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #31 on:** January 18, 2018, 12:09:42 PM »

Quote from: CWSooner on January 17, 2018, 07:32:41 PM

I would guess that additional reasons that Europe, Japan, and Korea have better passenger rail than we do is that they have governments that historically have been less-responsive to the public will than we do, and that they value personal freedom, at least the "free to go where I want when I want" variety of personal freedom, less than we do.

Well I do think that they tend to prioritize passenger rail over freight as well. But is that a good idea?
As I said above, using rail for freight makes great sense. It's much more efficient per ton to do long-haul transport by rail rather than by car. Apparently Europe thinks the opposite:
http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2008/02/european-vs-ame.html

Quote

Europe has decided to run its rail system primarily for passengers, while America's system is run mainly for freight. Europe's rail system has about 6 percent of the passenger travel market, while autos have about 78 percent. Meanwhile, 75 percent of European freight goes by highway. Here in the U.S., highway's share of freight travel is only 29 percent, while the auto's share of passenger travel is about 82 percent. So trains get 4 percent of potential auto users in Europe out of their cars, but leave almost three times as much freight on the highway.

How does it make more sense to load a bunch of people into nearly-empty cars on a fixed rail line when we can load big shipping containers full of goods that would otherwise clog up our highways even more?

CWSooner · « **Reply #32 on:** January 18, 2018, 08:20:27 PM »

American railroads found that they couldn't operate profitable passenger service once the government stopped using them to haul the mail.

And World War II really hurt American passenger rail. Many hundreds of thousands of GIs traveled across country on "troop cars" that had been converted from freight cars. There was nothing comfortable about them. Many of them vowed they'd never ride a train again, and they kept those vows.

It's my impression that American railroads get less in the way of government subsidies, government-built infrastructure, and tax write-offs of all transportation modes.

But, after all that, American railroads are hauling more ton-miles of freight than they ever have before. And they haul it much more efficiently than trucks do.

MarqHusker · « **Reply #33 on:** January 18, 2018, 10:16:22 PM »

All this rail talk and no SDF? We need to send him a signal.

Roaddawg · « **Reply #34 on:** February 01, 2018, 05:13:12 PM »

I enjoyed the Rutgers campus as well, even though it was for football, not B-Ball. The area in general really surprised me. Yes, pay attention to the Pen Station Train Stop.......as stated, I to will not share how I learned the difference! In fact, I believe that was the trip we ran into each on the USS New Jersey. LOL

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #35 on:** February 01, 2018, 05:17:08 PM »

Quote from: Roaddawg on February 01, 2018, 05:13:12 PM

I enjoyed the Rutgers campus as well, even though it was for football, not B-Ball. The area in general really surprised me. Yes, pay attention to the Pen Station Train Stop.......as stated, I to will not share how I learned the difference! In fact, I believe that was the trip we ran into each on the USS New Jersey. LOL

Funny that you ran into the same Penn Station issue. The USS New Jersey was a highlight of our trip to Rutgers for the Football game. It is an awesome sight to behold.

Brutus Buckeye · « **Reply #36 on:** February 01, 2018, 07:23:25 PM »

Quote from: Hawkinole on January 18, 2018, 12:58:29 AM

I went on Mapquest to calculate the difference in travel time, between train and auto, Cleveland to NYC, and it's about 5-hours one-way. That is significant.
About 6-years ago we had a family vacation that included NYC. My daughter was in a gymnastics meet in West Virginia. We wanted the NYC experience. We traveled north to Harrisburg, and took a 200 mile commuter train to Penn Station. I arranged a hotel kitty-corner across the street. We wheeled the suitcases across the way upon arrival. It was such a great way to travel. We could sleep on the way in, and were well-rested and ready to go. I have fought the NYC traffic when I was a tour bus driver as a young guy. It is distressing and wears you out. That extra 10-hours RT might be a deal breaker on a train from Cleveland. But on a vacation Harrisburg to NYC, it was a deal maker. I didn't have to take a 2-hour nap in the hotel before walking to Time Square.
Medina, thanks for the report. It was a great article. Like you I was enamored with Gator's reports, as well.

Five extra hours one way from Cleveland to NYC? Man, how slow are these dagone trains going?
I mean I am sure that they have to make about a half a dozen stops or so along the way, but it's not as though they have to worry about stop and go traffic, car accidents, rush hour traffic, traffic cops, traffic lights, traffic circles, speed bumps, food stops, gas stops, restroom stops, road construction or getting stuck at a long railroad crossing.

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Topic: BB Road trip to Rutgers

CWSooner

Re: BB Road trip to Rutgers

GopherRock

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Hawkinole

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betarhoalphadelta

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CWSooner

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MarqHusker

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Roaddawg

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medinabuckeye1

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Brutus Buckeye

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