header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Battle of the Big Game Stooges (SOC Week 10)

 (Read 6610 times)

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 19973
  • Liked:
Re: Battle of the Big Game Stooges (SOC Week 10)
« Reply #252 on: November 03, 2024, 12:21:30 PM »
Does anyone here find any value in this FPI thing?  I can't.
Does the answer I don't know/care what it is count?
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 19973
  • Liked:
Re: Battle of the Big Game Stooges (SOC Week 10)
« Reply #253 on: November 03, 2024, 12:24:19 PM »
Auburn probably should have added Diego Pavia


https://twitter.com/JasonKirk_fyi/status/1852804741300117705

Perhaps Hugh had a relapse calling the girls and hasn't dialed up the right plays
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 82585
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Battle of the Big Game Stooges (SOC Week 10)
« Reply #254 on: November 03, 2024, 12:24:40 PM »
Does the answer I don't know/care what it is count?
Of course, I thought perhaps someone could explain why anyone would pay attention to it.  

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 14511
  • Liked:
Re: Battle of the Big Game Stooges (SOC Week 10)
« Reply #255 on: November 03, 2024, 12:28:27 PM »
Does anyone here find any value in this FPI thing?  I can't.
Of course, I thought perhaps someone could explain why anyone would pay attention to it. 
ESPN needed to have their own proprietary power index ranking/prediction system, likely for commercial/marketing purposes. So they created FPI. 

Is it an equal or better predictive system than anything else? I don't know. I've never really dug into it. 

But that's all it is. It's just like any other power index algorithm, only this one is ESPN's. 

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 19973
  • Liked:
Re: Battle of the Big Game Stooges (SOC Week 10)
« Reply #256 on: November 03, 2024, 12:30:47 PM »
ESPN needed to have their own proprietary power index ranking/prediction system, likely for commercial/marketing purposes. So they created FPI.
Fargin' Polluted Idiots
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 82585
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Battle of the Big Game Stooges (SOC Week 10)
« Reply #257 on: November 03, 2024, 12:33:45 PM »
I glance at it at times, and always wonder what their algoritm values.  Losing to Vandy seems to be a plus.

MaximumSam

  • Guest
Re: Battle of the Big Game Stooges (SOC Week 10)
« Reply #258 on: November 03, 2024, 01:17:59 PM »
ESPN needed to have their own proprietary power index ranking/prediction system, likely for commercial/marketing purposes. So they created FPI.

Is it an equal or better predictive system than anything else? I don't know. I've never really dug into it.

But that's all it is. It's just like any other power index algorithm, only this one is ESPN's.
It's weird because they then hired Bill Connelly and publish SP+ too. Not sure why they keep both.

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 21773
  • Liked:
Re: Battle of the Big Game Stooges (SOC Week 10)
« Reply #259 on: November 03, 2024, 02:03:34 PM »
My guess is the FSU players have mailed it in, trying not to get hurt now.  Maybe a few think of getting drafted.

I can't think of a team highly regarded preseason that ended up this way.  1-8???
Especially with no major offensive players getting hurt.  They took DJU, who had to downgrade himself from a Clemson to an Oregon State, and thought he'd POOF some QB skills en route somehow.  Dipshits.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 21773
  • Liked:
Re: Battle of the Big Game Stooges (SOC Week 10)
« Reply #260 on: November 03, 2024, 02:06:04 PM »
The 8th-best team in the SEC is either LSU, Ole Miss, or South Carolina.  That's fucking impressive...and without programs like OU or Florida factoring in the top 8 at all.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 21773
  • Liked:
Re: Battle of the Big Game Stooges (SOC Week 10)
« Reply #261 on: November 03, 2024, 02:26:44 PM »


Okay, so if at first that initial list of factors sounds like dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge....maybe just keep reading and give it a chance.
I'm going to compare this stuff to baseball terms, because I'm pretty well-versed in that and Moneyball helped spread it to many people.

Efficiency is the #1 stat this guy has determined helps teams be good and win games.  Like with on-base % in baseball.  It's not a bulk of the overall picture, it's not the only important thing, but if you had to pick one and only one stat, that's it.  
SP+ attempts to value that as well as explosiveness, which would be like SLG% in baseball.  It's akin to OPS in baseball, this SP+.  Yes, Tony Gwynn was great at having a high batting average, but you need some slugging in there, too.  Efficiency + explosive plays = OBP + SLG

Efficiency seems to be a few things - yards gained on first down, first downs, and points scored per drive.
Explosiveness would seem to be yards per attempt, long plays, etc.
I assume limiting these on defense is incorporated as well.

It specifies how turnovers and red zone success rate tend to be more random, and I think we mostly agree with that.  I'd suggest turnovers are more random, but that's an untested estimate.

Sacks are good (duh) and incorporated here, but something I've noticed in my research is how Georgia under Smart tends not to have great sack totals.  Like year after year, it's not really a priority for them, which makes them unique, as everyone else seems to consistently have more.  Smart is doing something different when it comes to having great defenses without ebbs and flows in sacks.  



So what SP+ is doing is not rewarding big wins and penalizing losses, but simply taking each small piece of a football game (or an at-bat in baseball) and adding/subtracting it to tell the story of how good a team is.  

Maybe you don't believe you can take apart and engine 100% and put it back together and call it the same engine, but maybe you can.  It's an attempt to remove the inherit bias we all possess, take out as much of the randomness as you can, and to just rate teams on what is.  

You can agree with it or not, and we all find issues with it, I'm sure.  But those issues we have are probably due to those human feelings and preconceived notions that most every formula tries to eliminate.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

ELA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 22874
  • Liked:
Re: Battle of the Big Game Stooges (SOC Week 10)
« Reply #262 on: November 03, 2024, 02:28:48 PM »
It's weird because they then hired Bill Connelly and publish SP+ too. Not sure why they keep both.
I figured once they brought him in they would discontinue it

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 21773
  • Liked:
Re: Battle of the Big Game Stooges (SOC Week 10)
« Reply #263 on: November 03, 2024, 03:48:46 PM »
Man vs algorithm probably gets clicks and eyeballs.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.