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Topic: B1G Power Rankings, week 3

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 3
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2021, 10:22:54 AM »
Yeah, he had Jim Bollman for basically his entire tenure.  Tressel was extremely loyal to his assistants, probably to a fault.
Probably?

847badgerfan

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 3
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2021, 10:37:49 AM »
1. Penn State
2. Iowa
3. Michigan
4. Ohio State
5. Michigan State
6. Wisconsin
7. Minnesota
8. Rutgers
9. Maryland
10. Purdue
11. Nebraska
12. Indiana
13. Illinoi
14. Northwestern
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

medinabuckeye1

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 3
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2021, 10:54:22 AM »
I still think on neutral ground OSU is a 7 point favorite over anyone else, but that is sliding.
I honestly don't know what to do with the Buckeyes ranking right now.  Here is one argument:
this is my thought as well. OSU still young team that is trying to find itself. They will get better.
Basically this argument has five main parts:
  • tOSU has a substantial talent advantage over every other team in the league.  
  • tOSU has a ridiculous recent history of dominating this league.  They haven't lost a league game since 2018 when they lost one.  They also lost one each in 2017, 2016, and 2015, and 2013 (CG).  They lost none in 2020, 2019, 2014, and 2012.  The last time they lost more than one league game in a year was in 2011 during a coaching transition.  Prior to that the last time they lost more than one league game in a year was in 2004 so in almost two decades the Buckeyes have lost more than one league game twice.  
  • Did you see what Minnesota did to Colorado?  
  • It is not unrealistic to think that Oregon is the best team that any B1G team has played so far this year and the Buckeyes were in that game until the end.  
  • Although the Buckeyes haven't looked great, their only loss is to a team now ranked #3/4 and they are #1 in this league until proven otherwise.  It hasn't been proven yet.  

Obviously the argument on the other side is to simply look at what your eyes have seen.  The Buckeyes have looked like a decent team but not as good as the top 3-4 teams in the league (I'm excluding MSU because I think the people ranking MSU above tOSU are reaching).  

Thus we have an interesting situation in which there aren't many moderates wrt to tOSU's ranking.  Out of nine voters so far the Buckeyes have:


Teams that voters have ranked ahead of Ohio State:
  • Penn State by 7 out of 9 voters
  • Iowa by 6 out of 9 voters
  • Michigan by 6 out of 9 voters
  • Wisconsin by 4 out of 9 voters
  • Michigan State by 3 out of 9 voters


We generally agree around here that 'power ranking' means who would win on a neutral field.  Even that doesn't really help me right now because I feel like it is different for different teams.  Comparing tOSU and PSU:
  • If I were an Illinois fan I'd rather play tOSU because I'd feel like there was a chance that tOSU might show up and play a bad enough game that my bad team just might be able to knock them off.  
  • If I were an Alabama fan I'd rather play PSU (or IA, M, UW, or MSU) because I'd feel like my uber-talented team could simply out-talent them so severely that they'd have almost no chance.  

If you asked me which team Illinois was more likely to beat I'd say tOSU but if you asked me which team was more likely to beat Bama, I'd also say tOSU.  

When I do my rankings I think I'm going to leave tOSU at #1 on the basis that after the last two decades you are going to have to show me more than a couple of bad games and only one (non-league) loss before I decide that they aren't #1 anymore.  


MaximumSam

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 3
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2021, 11:13:54 AM »
I just rank them 6th because the defense is Bad with a capital B. They seem to have gotten worse each week. They are 118th(!) in the country in total defense. That's not bad for Ohio State, that's bad for a MAC team. I'm not even sure if they have played a very good offense yet. Minny looks the part but was missing their top receiver and Ibrahim was injured halfway through. Oregon has been inconsistent on offense going back to last season. Tulsa is Tulsa. 

OSU has a puncher's chance in any game because of their offense. But compare to 2018 - a similar team in terms of janky defense. That defense was much better than this one, and the offense was probably better, too. That team won the B1G and a Rose Bowl, but also won close games that I'm not sure this team will.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 3
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2021, 11:19:44 AM »
  • Ohio State - 1,1,1 Clearly not looking like a CFP team but I'm not yet ready to say they aren't #1 in this league. 
  • Penn State - 2,2,3 Great win!
  • Michigan - 5,5,5 Chugging along looking like the Michigan of 30 years ago.
  • Wisconsin - 3,3,2 Off this week getting ready for the Irish. 
  • Iowa - 4,4,4 This team is like a poor man's Tressel team.  Their D is so good that they could beat almost anybody but their O is so bad that they just might lose any given week. 
  • Minnesota - 8,6,7 Wow, that was impressive! You can say Colorado sucks and maybe they do, but they had 260 yards against aTm.  Aside from that, even assuming Colorado completely sucks, how often do you see even a team like Bama hold an opponent to <100 yards of offense?
  • Michigan State - 9,9,11 Nice win!
  • Maryland - 6,7,12 Escaped!
  • Rutgers - 7,8,13 Did what they were expected to do against FCS opponent. 
  • Indiana - 10,10,6 Just collapsed late.  They led at the half and going into the fourth but got destroyed in the fourth quarter. 
  • Purdue - 11,11,10 Well, they stayed in it. 
  • Nebraska - 14,14,9 Well, at least they didn't get embarrassed.
  • Illinois - 13,13,14 The Illini are making the conference look bad.  In their two league games they have a win over UNL and a close game with UMD but looking at their two OOC games they look pathetic. 
  • Northwestern - 12,12,8 Made it look respectable after trailing 27-0 but that was not good.


Abba

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 3
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2021, 11:24:12 AM »
Probably?
Although some of the coaches were mediocre, there was less turnover, which definitely has caused problems for Meyer and Day.  Probably still better to get the best guy for 1-2 years, but semi-debatable.

Temp430

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 3
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2021, 12:21:38 PM »
The Buckeye's schedule sets up nice the next five and a half weeks before the Penn State game.  Plenty of time to get their Ducks in a row.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 12:46:20 PM by Temp430 »
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 3
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2021, 01:18:42 PM »
I just rank them 6th because the defense is Bad with a capital B. They seem to have gotten worse each week. They are 118th(!) in the country in total defense. That's not bad for Ohio State, that's bad for a MAC team. I'm not even sure if they have played a very good offense yet. Minny looks the part but was missing their top receiver and Ibrahim was injured halfway through. Oregon has been inconsistent on offense going back to last season. Tulsa is Tulsa.

OSU has a puncher's chance in any game because of their offense. But compare to 2018 - a similar team in terms of janky defense. That defense was much better than this one, and the offense was probably better, too. That team won the B1G and a Rose Bowl, but also won close games that I'm not sure this team will.
I rank them down there as well, but for a completely different reasoning.

I always view ranking as simple as this: if they played tomorrow on a neutral field and someone put a gun to my head to bet my life savings or even $10, who would I pick.  Right now I would pick four or five teams to win if the game were tomorrow.

having said that- there is context to what you are saying here. For example, ranking them in statistics after three games is really kind of silly. How do you compare a team that open the season with a brand new quarterback and a road game environment in the conference, with a team like Michigan just as an example who has not even played away from home let alone a conference opponent?  The stats aren’t worth much until you get at least a few games into the conference schedule.

And Ibrahim played through most of the third Quarter.

As for their defense -you have to be more specific if you want to understand what’s going on there. There’s about 100 film studies available out there that explain that they have been running their single hi Safety look, with press man coverage and running at about 90% of the time with no effort’s to disguise it. 

Joe Moorhead exposed it, mostly in the running game.  Ohio State simply could not defend the boundary side of the field with the simple concept of “crack Replace”. ( something I learned in HS Football as a CB). Oregon very rarely dropped back to pass, choosing instead to get the ball out very quickly to the perimeter on the boundary side, which led to almost no pressure on the quarterback.

The coaching staff worked on many changes for this last weekend, primarily focusing on stuffing the opponents running game.  They did a fantastic job of that holding them to 59 yards and 2 yards a carry. They played a soft zone, keeping everything in front of them for about 80% of the game.  Tulsa picked them apart and the underneath zones with the dink and dunk game.
It did not lead to much in the way of points but it did the trick as far as possessing the ball, moving the chains, and keeping the ball out of Ohio states offense hands.  Zack Harrison and Teradja Mitchell did not play.  Tulsa had a few drop back passing plays, but mostly quick, short throws.  When they did drop back The buckeyes got very little pressure which is very concerning. But it is also somewhat understandable since both Oregon and Tulsa have RPO’d them to death. When it’s potentially a running play the defensive lineman can’t simply pin their ears back and the teams have been using that to hold Ohio State in place. 

The one area of strength has actually been the CBs in pass coverage.  I know that sounds weird when they just gave up 480 yards passing but again almost all of that was soft zone stuff where the plan is to give them the throw and rally to the tackle.

Some new stars have been “ born” as well
Denzel Burke- true freshman CB has been solid as a rock. Cam Martinez, RSF, got his first substantial playing time yesterday in the defensive backfield and looked fantastic. Tyleik Williams, Freshman DT got his first limited playing time this weekend and looked like Johnathan Hankins the second. 

where they have been hurt the most is at linebacker and they have some very good talent there but zero experience especially when you consider that last year‘s three starting linebackers were starters for three years. I would assume they will improve with experience as well the entire defense but it’s just a question of how long does it take.


On offensive superstar was born this weekend with Trayveon Henderson.  He is a home run hitter and a threat every time he touches the ball but still can run in between the tackles.

The issue they have an office is the quarterback has been very inconsistent. At times against both Minnesota and Oregon he looked like an assassin. But against Tulsa he never looked good or comfortable. He is nursing some kind of a right shoulder injury and it makes you wonder if the staff will give someone else a try this coming weekend if for nothing else, to let his arm heal.

another shout against him is that he doesn’t run very often when he easily could and certainly has the skill to do it. Not sure if the injury is related to that or not.

All of that adds up to a team that’s not extremely impressive and certainly not dominant in anyway shape or form, but also has tremendous potential. Only time will tell if any of that potential gets fulfilled.

It is very challenging to change your primary scheme on defense this early in the season. But they don’t need to. They simply need to blend in cover two and some disguising of what they’re running as well as some creative blitz packages and that something they certainly could do and look like they’re trying to do.

As 1 million film breakdown experts have said in the last two weeks, it’s too easy for a good office of coordinator to game plan both beforehand and endgame when all they run is there a single hi Safety look. Do you need a crazy good defense of line and a crazy good deep safety to run that scheme and with Josh Proctor now out for the year Ohio State has neither of those two so hopefully they adapt to the really strong personnel that they do have, but time will tell
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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MaximumSam

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 3
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2021, 01:40:39 PM »
I dunno, I am of the mind of James Laurinaitis - against a team like Tulsa, you should be able to play one defense and still do a competent job. I don't see a team that's about to turn a corner. I see a team that has average talent and makes a lot of mistakes. I like some of the young guys, but that only exacerbates the problem that guys who supposedly know the system are constantly not making plays or making bad plays.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 3
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2021, 01:53:46 PM »
I dunno, I am of the mind of James Laurinaitis - against a team like Tulsa, you should be able to play one defense and still do a competent job. I don't see a team that's about to turn a corner. I see a team that has average talent and makes a lot of mistakes. I like some of the young guys, but that only exacerbates the problem that guys who supposedly know the system are constantly not making plays or making bad plays.
Well this could be true.  We will see.  I hope not. 
They have to prove it on the field.  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Cincydawg

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 3
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2021, 01:57:21 PM »
Ohio State has elite talent, they are top 3 or 4 in the country in that respect.

LittlePig

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 3
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2021, 02:59:32 PM »
The Buckeye's schedule sets up nice the next five and a half weeks before the Penn State game.  Plenty of time to get their Ducks in a row.
Yes, its really too bad the Buckeyes had to play the Ducks before they had all their Ducks in a row.  

ELA

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 3
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2021, 03:39:58 PM »
Last week in parenthesis

  • IOWA (1) - resume keeps them #1, but I'm not sure I'd pick them to beat everyone else on a neutral field right now
  • PENN STATE (3) - defense remains stout, feeling better about the offense if that's the Sean Clifford we get
  • OHIO STATE (2) - I still don't really buy this, but Iowa and Penn State have such good resumes
  • WISCONSIN (4) - going to learn a lot this weekend
  • MICHIGAN (5) - continue to take care of business, tough to learn much yet though
  • MICHIGAN STATE (8) - ahead of schedule for sure, but can Kenneth Walker survive this workload?
  • MARYLAND (6) - not pretty, but it's a road win against a conference opponent
  • MINNESOTA (10) - hell of a bounce back statement
  • RUTGERS (11) - we will learn a lot this week
  • INDIANA (7) - should have been up a lot more than they were early, and that came back to bite them
  • PURDUE (9) - how can Brohm still not have any running game?  The run defense looks good
  • NEBRASKA (13) - blackshirts are slowly rounding into a sneaky good side
  • NORTHWESTERN (12) - hard to remember 2021 opened with a Citrus Bowl romp over Auburn, feels forever ago 
  • ILLINOIS (14) - where had that defense been the previous two weeks?



Honestbuckeye

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 3
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2021, 04:10:13 PM »
Yes, its really too bad the Buckeyes had to play the Ducks before they had all their Ducks in a row. 
😂😂.  They were out coached on the defensive side of the ball.  Oregon knew exactly how they would play defense, they knew it wouldn’t change them regardless of the situation of down and distance and they schemed for extremely well.  Even with all that Ohio State had a chance to win in the end and didn’t do it. No pity here as they got exactly what they deserved
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

 

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