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Topic: B1G Championships

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LittlePig

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Re: B1G Championships
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2018, 03:53:10 AM »
Since the Big Ten went to divisions in 2011

OSU - 2 conference titles, maybe 3 after Sat,  4 CCG appearances
Wisc - 2 conference titles, 5 CCG
MSU - 2 conference titles, 3 CCG
PSU - 1 conference title,  1 CCG
NW - 0 conference titles, maybe 1 after Sat, 1 CCG
Neb - 0 conference titles,  1 CCG
Iowa - 0 conference titles, 1 CCG

Mich, Indy, Rut, MD, Pur, ILL, Minn - 0 conference titles, 0 CCG appearances

Of course these numbers are skewed because OSU was on probation in 2012, and Wisc went to the CCG in OSU's place, and won.  Otherwise, OSU's dominance would be more obvious.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 04:00:46 AM by LittlePig »
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: B1G Championships
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2018, 12:24:14 PM »
Quote from: LittlePig on November 29, 2018, 03:53:10 AM
Otherwise, OSU's dominance would be more obvious.
It would be more obvious if you used Divisional Championships instead of CCG appearances as the secondary basis of comparison:
  • Ohio State:  2 Conference Titles (playing for a third on Saturday), 7 Divisional Championships, 4 CCG.  (Lost tiebreaker twice, ineligible once)
  • Wisconsin:  2 Conference Titles, 4 Divisional Championships, 5 CCG.  (Went in place of ineligible tOSU and PSU as the third place team  in the Leaders in 2012)
  • Michigan State:  2 Conference Titles, 3 Divisional Championships, 3 CCG.  
  • Penn State:  1 Conference Title, 2 Divisional Championships, 1 CCG.  (Lost tiebreaker once)
  • Northwestern:  0 Conference Titles (playing for one on Saturday), 1 Divisional Championship, 1 CCG.  
  • Nebraska:  0 Conference Titles, 1 Divisional Championship, 1 CCG.  
  • Iowa:  0 Conference Titles, 1 Divisional Championship, 1 CCG.  
  • Michigan:  0 Conference Titles, 1 Divisional Championship, 0 CCG's.  (Lost tiebreaker)
  • Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland, Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota:  0, 0, 0
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LittlePig

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Re: B1G Championships
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2018, 02:17:08 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on November 29, 2018, 12:24:14 PM
It would be more obvious if you used Divisional Championships instead of CCG appearances
Yes, thats a good point and I know that's how the Big Ten officially counts division championships.  But I personally have never been a fan of the co-championships, both before divisions and now with divisions.
Yes, if you are listing 1st place finishes, you should list any tie for 1st.  But that's not a championship in my view.  That's what tiebreakers are for, to break the tie and determine who will represent your division as its champion in the CCG.  The team sitting at home is not the division champion.
Anyway,  that's why I listed CCG appearances instead of 1st place finishes.  Which normally works as a strategy unless the 1st place team is on probation.  
I almost wish the 2012 season would be treated the same way as vacated wins.  When a team vacates a win, it does not make the loser into the winner instead.  But OSU's 2012 regular season games did officially count, so I guess that is a good argument why they should be considered the division champion.  On the other hand, Wisconsin did technically win the 2012 CCG, which technically makes them the 2012 conference champion.
I guess it all works out the more I think about it.
 
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 02:19:05 PM by LittlePig »
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: B1G Championships
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2018, 03:33:51 PM »
Quote from: LittlePig on November 29, 2018, 02:17:08 PM
Yes, thats a good point and I know that's how the Big Ten officially counts division championships.  But I personally have never been a fan of the co-championships, both before divisions and now with divisions.
Yes, if you are listing 1st place finishes, you should list any tie for 1st.  But that's not a championship in my view.  That's what tiebreakers are for, to break the tie and determine who will represent your division as its champion in the CCG.  The team sitting at home is not the division champion.
Anyway,  that's why I listed CCG appearances instead of 1st place finishes.  Which normally works as a strategy unless the 1st place team is on probation.  
I almost wish the 2012 season would be treated the same way as vacated wins.  When a team vacates a win, it does not make the loser into the winner instead.  But OSU's 2012 regular season games did officially count, so I guess that is a good argument why they should be considered the division champion.  On the other hand, Wisconsin did technically win the 2012 CCG, which technically makes them the 2012 conference champion.
I guess it all works out the more I think about it.
My position on the Divisional Championship that Ohio State "won" in 2012 is that the rule should read as follows:
  • The team with the best record in the division shall be the division Champion if they are eligible to play in the CCG.  If not, then the eligible team with the best record shall play in the CCG and their shall be NO Divisional Champion for that year.  
I've always found it odd that Ohio State was the outright Champion in 2012 but didn't play in the CCG.  I would also find it odd to declare a .500 Wisconsin team the "Champion" so that is why my suggestion would just have no champion for that year.  

As far as co-championships, I don't know what to think.  On a one year basis, who cares.  I felt that way in 2015 when Ohio State lost the H2H tiebreaker to MSU and in 2016 when Ohio State lost the H2H tiebreaker to PSU and I feel that way this year when M lost the H2H tiebreaker to tOSU.  

That said, in the context of a streak, I think they should be considered valid.  Ie, Ohio State has won five consecutive B1G-E championships and seven consecutive B1G Divisional titles:
  • 2018, B1G-E Co-Champions with Michigan, won H2H tiebreaker
  • 2017, B1G-E outright Champions
  • 2016, B1G-E Co-Champions with PSU, lost H2H tiebreaker
  • 2015, B1G-E Co-Champions with MSU, lost H2H tiebreaker
  • 2014, B1G-E outright Champions
  • 2013, B1G-Leaders outright Champions
  • 2012, B1G-Leaders outright Champions, ineligible for CCG
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MarqHusker

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Re: B1G Championships
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2018, 01:01:51 AM »
<br /><br />

Identify these Big Ten Champions.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 02:02:19 AM by MarqHusker »
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847badgerfan

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Re: B1G Championships
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2018, 07:16:52 AM »
Well shit. That shirt makes me look fat, and who the hell is that bitter drunken cop draped all over me??
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U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

medinabuckeye1

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Re: B1G Championships
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2018, 07:28:00 AM »
Quote from: MarqHusker on November 30, 2018, 01:01:51 AM
<br /><br />

Identify these Big Ten Champions.
Well I recognize @Roaddawg and @847badgerfan 's comment (along with the shirt) makes it obvious who he is.  
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MarqHusker

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Re: B1G Championships
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2018, 07:48:26 AM »
We were all pretty well served at this point 
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847badgerfan

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Re: B1G Championships
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2018, 08:02:59 AM »
Nah. Never happens.
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U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

FearlessF

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Re: B1G Championships
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2018, 09:31:45 AM »
Guy in the back looks sleepy
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"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Roaddawg

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Re: B1G Championships
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2018, 01:09:40 PM »
That was a good night! Great set up for an enjoyable next day downtown as well. 
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MrNubbz

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Re: B1G Championships
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2018, 01:54:05 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 30, 2018, 07:16:52 AM
who the hell is that bitter drunken cop draped all over me??
Fife,Barney Fife......I mean Capt.America
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mcwterps1

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Re: B1G Championships
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2018, 07:57:44 PM »
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ohio1317

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Re: B1G Championships
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2018, 12:52:20 AM »
I have always preferred to emphasize co-champs.  That's the opposite of how I think most like to portray, but my opinion on the matter has always been if you don't want to share, then win it outright. 

Ohio State and Michigan tied at 8-1 this year.  Ohio State got to go to the Big Ten Championship for a chance at a conference championship and won it.  That was the reward for winning the tie-breaker with Michigan.  If we didn't want to have to accept we are co-divisional champs with Michigan though, we should have beaten Purdue.
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