Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

Oh I agree that they've not been impressive since joining the Big Ten and usually have their little September fling with success before it comes crashing down later in the year.  I don't really have a comment on their long term success, but I think they might finally have the right team this year to make a little more noise and win 8 games or so. 

At least Maryland tends to make the conference look good by being better in the September OOC games than they are later during league play.  Seriously, here is UMD's recent history in that regard:

• 2021:  Started 4-0 including 3-0 OOC with a nice win over WVU and looked like they might make some noise then imploded with a 2-6 finish in conference.  
• 2020:  n/a no OOC
• 2019:  Started out 2-1 OOC.  The loss was weak (Temple) but they had a nice blowout win over a (then) ranked Syracuse.  They went 1-8 in conference.  
• 2018:  Started out 2-1 OOC.  The loss was weak (Temple again) but they did beat a ranked Texas team.  Then went 3-6 in conference.  
• 2017:  Started out 2-1 OOC.  The loss was bad (blowout to UCF) but they did beat a ranked Texas team.  Then went 2-7 in conference.  
• 2016:  Started out 3-0 OOC.  Then went 3-6 in conference.  

Compare that to Northwestern.  The Wildcats tend to make us look bad by sucking early/OOC then getting better.  

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not just saying this to pick on Michigan.  Ohio State has had years in the past where their OOC was embarrassingly weak, it happens sometimes.  Back in 2007, for example, Ohio State's schedule started out with YSU, Akron, Washington, Northwestern and a lot of us joked that the schedule started with YAWN. 

That said, I think that one of the problems with a WEAK early schedule is that it can lead to what you and I are speculating might happen with Michigan this year.  I have little doubt that Michigan can beat up Colorado State, Hawaii, UCONN, and Maryland with Cade McNamara under center.  For that matter they could probably win those four games with you or I behind center.  In fact, although I agree with you that JJ is the better long-term option with much higher upside, I would argue that Michigan would be MORE likely to be upset in one of those first four with JJ playing because those young talented guys tend to be a bit up-and-down.  With Cade you know what you are getting.  He will do nothing extremely good or extremely bad.  He'll just "game-manage" and Michigan will win.  Then you'll get to the challenging games like @Iowa on October 1, PSU on October 15, MSU on October 29, and of course tOSU on November 26.  Last year Michigan was able to win nearly all of those type games by leaning on a VERY stout defense and a VERY powerful running game.  My impression is that they lost a lot of the personnel behind those two things such that I doubt they can do that again. 

I agree with you 100% and what you say is the likely scenario imo...Harbaugh will roll with Cade in the easy openers and play it safe because he'll be able to sleep walk through that cupcake opening to 4-0- whereas with JJ the chances of maybe dropping 1 of those games is higher as he's brand new and a first time starter. Problem is then...what if Michigan starts to falter once they get into the meat of the schedule and Cade just can't carry the team (which let's be honest, he can't) and THEN in desperation Harbaugh throws JJ out there to the wolves with zero starting experience. STUPID. Let the kid start the opening 4 games and work through the kinks and get the hang of it- who cares if you drop a game early on- that way when you do get into the meat of the schedule you'll have a more seasoned/prepared JJ. 

How injured is JJ Mc?Even if Booger plans on rotating him in he should be injury free 1st

I'm hoping McNamara runs out there for the opening drive of the season so that mdot's response can rival that of Fukushima or Chernobyl.  

Nah. I've already accepted it. This is just who Harbaugh is. He's been the same guy at Michigan he was at Stanford and with the 49ers. His philosophy is stone age. He wants to run the ball, play defense, and have a QB that will manage the game and not make the big mistakes. That's fine and dandy against 99% of the schedule most years (save for Ohio State- who is always loaded) but when you face a team like Georgia in a playoff game- well as we all saw- you're not going to out Georgia Georgia at Michigan. Just ain't gonna happen. Michigan had two 1st rd picks off it's defense this past draft. Georgia had FIVE. And the best player in college on the field in the games for Georgia- Nakobe Dean- wasn't one of them.

Even Nick Saban- THE greatest college football coach ever- whose entire MO and rep was built on...we're gonna play smash mouth run the ball down your throat and play elite defense- realized...those days are long gone. The game has evolved and changed- and he's evolved and changed with it. He went out and got Tua, Mac Jones, and now Bryce Young - and he opened up the offense and realized that in todays game....you have to score points...you ain't stopping anybody any more. If the greatest coach ever can change up on the fly and change his program....that tells you something about where the game is today. Harbaugh is too stubborn and hard headed to make any kind of significant change like that. He's going to roll with Cade and try and ball control, game manage, run the ball, and play defense.

I agree 100%.  As an old-time Ohio State fan I can understand Harbaugh's feelings.  Personally, I LOVED teams that could play stifling defense, run the ball reasonably effectively, and just bludgeon their opponents but I agree with you that it is nigh on to impossible to win an NC that way anymore.  I think Tressel's post-2002 teams illustrate this pretty well.  The Buckeyes had enough talent to dominate our league that way and they won a slew of league titles but when they got matched up against the best of the best, it usually wasn't pretty:

• 2006:  12-0 regular season, 8-0 Big11Ten, L 41-14 in BCSNCG against Florida.  
• 2007:  11-1 regular season, 7-1 Big11Ten, L 38-24 in BCSNCG against LSU.  
• 2008:  10-2 regular season, 7-1 Big11Ten, L 35-3 at USC and 24-21 against Texas in the Fiesta.  

Even as far back as the Ten Year War, our teams mutually dominated the BigTen but had a terrible record in Rose Bowls.  Rose Bowls during the Woody/Bo era:

• 1970:  Michigan lost 10-3 to USC.  
• 1971:  Ohio State lost 27-17 to Stanford.  
• 1972:  Michigan lost 13-12 to Stanford.  
• 1973:  Ohio State lost 42-17 to USC.  
• 1974:  Ohio State WON 42-21 over USC.  
• 1975:  Ohio State lost 18-17 to USC.  
• 1976:  Ohio State lost 23-10 to UCLA.  
• 1977:  Michigan lost 14-6 to USC.  
• 1978:  Michigan lost 27-20 to Washington.  
• 1979:  Michigan lost 17-10 to USC.  

Those teams played stifling defense.  Points given up per season / game:

• 1969 Michigan:  148 points in 11 games, 13.45 ppg.  
• 1970 Ohio State:  120 points in 10 games, 12 ppg.  
• 1971 Michigan:  83 points in 12 games, 6.92 ppg.  
• 1972 Ohio State:  171 points in 11 games 15.5 ppg.  
• 1973 Ohio State:  64 points in 11 games, 5.82 ppg.  (What is even crazier is that they gave up 44 in their last three games: 13 to Iowa, 10 to M, and 21 to USC.  Prior to that they had given up only 20 points in eight games).  
• 1974 Ohio State:  129 points in 12 games, 10.75 ppg.  
• 1975 Ohio State:  102 points in 12 games, 8.5 ppg.  
• 1976 Michigan:  95 points in 12 games, 7.92 ppg.  
• 1977 Michigan:  124 points in 12 games, 10.33 ppg.  
• 1978 Michigan:  105 points in 12 games, 8.75 ppg.  

Those teams played stifling defense and we all know they could run the ball but they went 1-9 in Rose Bowls because when they got up against teams with comparable talent they didn't have any creative answers.  

Even looking at last year's edition of THE GAME.  Michigan's defense was dominant and they ran the ball very well and they did win but Ohio State still put up 23 first downs, 458 yards, and 27 points.  If Ohio State's defense had been merely competent the game likely would have gone the other way.  Before anyone objects, I'm not crying the "but we coulda won if" game, I'm making a point about the modern game.  Even as stout as Michigan's defense was last year, they still allowed 27 points and 458 yards to Ohio State.  You just aren't likely to see a lot of 10-3 or 17-10 type games like the 1970 and 1979 Rose Bowls among top-tier teams anymore.  You HAVE to be able to score because it has become practically impossible to hold your opponents to single-digits.  

Nah. I've already accepted it. This is just who Harbaugh is. He's been the same guy at Michigan he was at Stanford and with the 49ers. His philosophy is stone age. He wants to run the ball, play defense, and have a QB that will manage the game and not make the big mistakes. That's fine and dandy against 99% of the schedule most years (save for Ohio State- who is always loaded) but when you face a team like Georgia in a playoff game- well as we all saw- you're not going to out Georgia Georgia at Michigan. Just ain't gonna happen. Michigan had two 1st rd picks off it's defense this past draft. Georgia had FIVE. And the best player in college on the field in the games for Georgia- Nakobe Dean- wasn't one of them.

I feel your pain on this because I think it is analogous to where Ohio State is with our BB coach.  Harbaugh isn't a bad coach.  In his time at Michigan:

• 2015:  10-3/6-2 went into THE GAME with at least a chance at a share of the Division (with a win and an MSU loss).  
• 2016:  10-3/7-2 went into THE GAME with control of their own destiny for the CG because they had a win over PSU.  
• 2017:  8-5/5-4 off year, it happens.  
• 2018:  10-3/8-1 went into THE GAME as the favorite to win and go to the CG.  
• 2019:  9-4/6-3 went into THE GAME with a chance to play spoiler but that was it, tOSU had already clinched the CG.  
• 2020:  2-4/2-4 hard to hold this against him as it was a goofy pandemic year.  
• 2021:  12-2/8-1 went into THE GAME with a chance to win the league and did it, went to CFP.  

This is pretty good even by Michigan's standards.  A lot depends on what time-frame you are comparing to.  This is VASTLY better than the seven years prior to Harbaugh's hiring.  In those seven years (2008-2014) the Wolverines were 1-6 against the Buckeyes (about the same) but had THREE sub .500 seasons and three more barely over .500 (7-6 in both 2013 and 2010 and 8-5 in 2012) with only one good season (11-2 in 2011).  

This isn't bad.  It is good, but like me with my school's BB coach, I think you feel that Michigan could do better and you want more but they aren't going to fire a guy who has them "relevant" and made the CFP last year so basically buckle in and enjoy what you can because it likely isn't changing anytime soon.  

I feel your pain on this because I think it is analogous to where Ohio State is with our BB coach.  Harbaugh isn't a bad coach.  In his time at Michigan:

• 2015:  10-3/6-2 went into THE GAME with at least a chance at a share of the Division (with a win and an MSU loss). 
• 2016:  10-3/7-2 went into THE GAME with control of their own destiny for the CG because they had a win over PSU. 
• 2017:  8-5/5-4 off year, it happens. 
• 2018:  10-3/8-1 went into THE GAME as the favorite to win and go to the CG. 
• 2019:  9-4/6-3 went into THE GAME with a chance to play spoiler but that was it, tOSU had already clinched the CG. 
• 2020:  2-4/2-4 hard to hold this against him as it was a goofy pandemic year. 
• 2021:  12-2/8-1 went into THE GAME with a chance to win the league and did it, went to CFP. 

This is pretty good even by Michigan's standards.  A lot depends on what time-frame you are comparing to.  This is VASTLY better than the seven years prior to Harbaugh's hiring.  In those seven years (2008-2014) the Wolverines were 1-6 against the Buckeyes (about the same) but had THREE sub .500 seasons and three more barely over .500 (7-6 in both 2013 and 2010 and 8-5 in 2012) with only one good season (11-2 in 2011). 

This isn't bad.  It is good, but like me with my school's BB coach, I think you feel that Michigan could do better and you want more but they aren't going to fire a guy who has them "relevant" and made the CFP last year so basically buckle in and enjoy what you can because it likely isn't changing anytime soon. 

Agree on all fronts. 

I don't think they should fire him. I think they should chop his balls off though and tell him...THIS is your OC....THIS is the style of offense you're playing....you're ordered to stay out...and JJ is the starter. If I was the AD I'd dictate those terms to him. What's he really going to do? He's not going to quit. The Vikings looked at him very closely and then said nah....hard pass. He has no other options til next year. IF you find the right OC who can take JJ and catapult this offense out of the stone age and into the modern age- then even if Harbaugh gets pissed off that he got his balls chopped off and then leaves next year for the NFL- just promote the OC. 

Michigan needs to find it's Ryan Day. Not saying you're going to even get an offensive minded coach that good....but even if you get Diet Ryan Day - that's a win compared to with the crap you've got for offensive coaching now.