header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Are divisions good or bad strategy?

 (Read 5597 times)

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Are divisions good or bad strategy?
« on: December 01, 2022, 09:00:11 AM »
Apparently the 12 team CFP will start soon. Assuming that it does, maybe we should keep divisions after all.

What got me thinking about this was the current situation with 8-4/6-3 Purdue playing 12-0/9-0 Michigan in the CG while 11-1/8-1 Ohio State sits at home. 

A lot of people feel that our best teams should be in the CG and scrapping divisions facilities that. However, it might be bad strategy in the 12-team playoff era.

As is, if we had the 12-team playoff now:
Ohio State would be safely in as would Michigan (even if they lose to Purdue) and Penn State would be basically a "bubble team".

Penn State is currently the #4 at-large behind tOSU, Bama, and TN. The risk for them is is that three CG upsets out of four (UGA, M, TCU, USC) would knock them back to the #7 at-large or "first team out".

With divisions there is very little risk for yhe league as a whole. A Michigan loss costs them a bye but might get Purdue into the playoff along with M, tOSU, and possibly PSU. A Michigan win gets them a bye and actually helps both tOSU and PSU because their loss to M is to a 13-0 P5 Champion. 

Without divisions tOSU would get a second crack at Michigan and while that might be nice for tOSU, I'm thinking it is bad for the league as a whole. Obviously there are two possibilities:

  • Michigan wins again: In this case Ohio State's playoff situation becomes precarious at best. Giving a team a second chance may make some sense (see UGA last year) but if you already lost to a playoff participant twice, do we really need to see that again?
  • Ohio State wins the rematch: In this case it is possible that neither gets a bye (they would this year).

I'm thinking that divisions are a better strategy going forward. 


FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37532
  • Liked:
Re: Are divisions good or bad strategy?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2022, 09:04:28 AM »
divisions are good regardless of playoff format

divisions are essentially conferences - a round robin division schedule actually can determine somethin

all 8 division members play each other - that's good

all 16 conference members just playing 8 or 9 random teams?  WTH?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71550
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Are divisions good or bad strategy?
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2022, 09:07:02 AM »
Yeah, I think you need divisions, and I see little real benefit in having an 11th place team make the playoffs ($$$?).  With 20 team conferences ahead, possibly, they would be required.  

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: Are divisions good or bad strategy?
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2022, 09:23:51 AM »
Yeah, I think you need divisions, and I see little real benefit in having an 11th place team make the playoffs ($$$?).  With 20 team conferences ahead, possibly, they would be required.
With the proposed format providing a bye for the top league Champions, Purdue actually might have a prayer at winning a first round game.

First, would they get in as a 9-4 B1G Champion? What league Champions would be ahead of them?
  • SECCG winner between #1 UGA and #14 LSU
  • B12CG winner between #3 TCU and #10 KSU
  • P12CG winner between #4 USC and #11 Utah
  • ACCCG winner between #9 Clemson and #23 UNC
  • AACCG winner between #18 Tulane and #22 UCF
That is it and #5 is debatable so Purdue is in with an upset of Michigan in Indy.

Assuming Purdue wins and there are no other upsets the playoff seeds are:
  • UGA
  • TCU
  • USC
  • Clemson (jumps PSU, TN, Bama, and tOSU because byes go to league champs only)
  • M
  • tOSU
  • Bama
  • TN
  • PSU
  • Washington
  • Tulane
  • Purdue
So the first round games are:
  • Purdue at Michigan, winner v Clemson
  • Tulane at Ohio State, winner v USC
  • Washington at Bama, winner v TCU
  • PSU at TN, winner v UGA


Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71550
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Are divisions good or bad strategy?
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2022, 09:24:44 AM »
The same analysis is true in the SEC I think this year.  UGA would have to play Bama (or Tenn, it's not clear yet).  Both would be lesser dogs than LSU.

I guess LSU might make it if they win the CG at 10-3, probably would.  Then you have four SEC teams out of 12 in the mix.  Does anyone really want that?

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71550
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Are divisions good or bad strategy?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2022, 09:43:41 AM »

  • Purdue at Michigan, winner v Clemson
  • Tulane at Ohio State, winner v USC
  • Washington at Bama, winner v TCU
  • PSU at TN, winner v UGA
It's more football which is nice, but some of these are not very interesting.



Temp430

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2506
  • Liked:
Re: Are divisions good or bad strategy?
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2022, 10:11:54 AM »
If you have a championship game there should be divisions.
A decade of Victory over Penn State.

All in since 1969

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37532
  • Liked:
Re: Are divisions good or bad strategy?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2022, 10:19:29 AM »
if yer gonna git rid of divisions, just schedule the top 4 teams to play the bottom 4 teams each season to enhance playoff seeding - no champ game

just send Michigan, Ohio St., Penn St. and the lucky #4 to do battle in the playoff.  Reshuffle the schedule each season to accommodate this. 

no need for those teams to ever play each other in conference play
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: Are divisions good or bad strategy?
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2022, 03:27:59 PM »
  • Purdue at Michigan, winner v Clemson
  • Tulane at Ohio State, winner v USC
  • Washington at Bama, winner v TCU
  • PSU at TN, winner v UGA
It's more football which is nice, but some of these are not very interesting.
Rethinking this, they probably would put Purdue ahead of Tulane just to avoid a Michigan/Purdue rematch so those first two would probably be:
  • Tulane at Michigan, winner vs Clemson 
  • Purdue at Ohio State, winner vs USC


MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17153
  • Liked:
Re: Are divisions good or bad strategy?
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2022, 04:24:32 PM »
if yer gonna git rid of divisions, just schedule the top 4 teams to play the bottom 4 teams each season to enhance playoff seeding - no champ game

just send Michigan, Ohio St., Penn St. and the lucky #4 to do battle in the playoff.  Reshuffle the schedule each season to accommodate this.

no need for those teams to ever play each other in conference play
I'm glad you are finally catching on
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71550
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Are divisions good or bad strategy?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2022, 04:26:07 PM »
CGs make money.  They won't go away.

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25234
  • Liked:
Re: Are divisions good or bad strategy?
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2022, 10:05:57 AM »
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37532
  • Liked:
Re: Are divisions good or bad strategy?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2022, 10:32:50 AM »
very important items

ya don't say
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Gigem

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2141
  • Liked:
Re: Are divisions good or bad strategy?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2022, 04:01:49 PM »
The problem with divisions is that you’re always going to have ups and downs of each division over time. When the Big 12 was formed the N Division was considered to be very strong. At the end, it was pretty weak IMO. The south division was very strong, maybe the best in D1. 

It’s like when I asked my dad, do you like summer or winter better ?  He said I like winter better in the summer and summer better in the winner. 

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.