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Topic: And the Badgers Shall Bring the Thunder - SOC 9/21

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: And the Badgers Shall Bring the Thunder - SOC 9/21
« Reply #252 on: September 24, 2019, 10:36:06 PM »
The Fromm-Fields-Eason thing is interesting.  I think UGA played it safe - Fromm helped win games, so don't mess with the success.


Yet both Alabama & Clemson - top programs - had Fromm-esque options starting at QB, but made the risky-ish change to a higher ceiling, but less known.  I believe they both did so because they'd been at the top of the mountain for a few years.  UGA was (Aug of last year) arriving and didn't want any additional risk.  


If UGA had been a top program the previous 4-5 years, I say Fields stays and starts over Fromm, a la Bama (Tua) and Clemson (Lawrence).
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: And the Badgers Shall Bring the Thunder - SOC 9/21
« Reply #253 on: September 24, 2019, 10:38:39 PM »
Kordell Stewart's hail mary over Michigan was 25 years ago today.  Jesus Christ.  I'm old.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: And the Badgers Shall Bring the Thunder - SOC 9/21
« Reply #254 on: September 24, 2019, 10:47:58 PM »
I'm not going to argue
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

TyphonInc

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Re: And the Badgers Shall Bring the Thunder - SOC 9/21
« Reply #255 on: September 24, 2019, 11:04:40 PM »
Maybe a rule that if if the trainers have to come out and attend to you then you have to sit out the rest of the drive.  Maybe even the quarter.

I think the 1st time a player goes down it can be the same rule of missing the next play. 

But if a player goes down a 2nd time, then I think they need to be attended to more than a play. How long does it take the body to absorb liquids to minimize cramping?

FearlessF

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Re: And the Badgers Shall Bring the Thunder - SOC 9/21
« Reply #256 on: September 24, 2019, 11:18:44 PM »
if a player goes down on the field and causes the clock to stop, he sits out the entire series.

If he's injured badly enough he can't get off the field under his own power he probably needs a few or more plays off.

if you want to play within the next couple of plays....... and your injury is to your shoulder or your arm, walk off the field, if your injury is to your right ankle or right thigh, hop off on your left leg
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

bayareabadger

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Re: And the Badgers Shall Bring the Thunder - SOC 9/21
« Reply #257 on: September 24, 2019, 11:39:49 PM »
The Fromm-Fields-Eason thing is interesting.  I think UGA played it safe - Fromm helped win games, so don't mess with the success.


Yet both Alabama & Clemson - top programs - had Fromm-esque options starting at QB, but made the risky-ish change to a higher ceiling, but less known.  I believe they both did so because they'd been at the top of the mountain for a few years.  UGA was (Aug of last year) arriving and didn't want any additional risk. 


If UGA had been a top program the previous 4-5 years, I say Fields stays and starts over Fromm, a la Bama (Tua) and Clemson (Lawrence).
SO, I find this interesting because each thing is slightly different.

Clemson was kind of easy. Bryant was just fine. His starting year he was 66th in the country in YPA. He was a plus runner, but not a great one. It was kinda clear more talent could edge him. Lawrence is maybe the best QB draft prospect ever. This was kinda easy.

Bama was a little messier. Hurts was a top-25 guy in YPA. He was a high end plus runner. He led an offense that was 16th in points per drive and the best at avoiding turnovers in the land. The team only turned to Tua in desperate straits. Bama didn't give a super talented Tua the job until it had a title on the line and needed something (and after that, it was easier to bench). In retrospect, Tua probably shoulda started sooner, though it's not because Hurts was all that lacking.

UGA is this other kettle of fish. Eason has the ceiling, but his floor and average play are not very good. Fromm, I can't tell if he's a supercharged Scott Tolzien (gets the ball to the right spots, won't make more than a few plays that pop), or  high-end pro-style passer in a system that makes him seem like a cog. Likewise, I can't tell if Fields is hyper developed or if OSU's system is good at making guys look good. I had the sense Fields looked a little rickety at times last year, though the numbers don't back that. 

I mean, Lawrence beat Bryant, or got close enough they knew he was beating him soon. Tua beat Hurts eventually. It never quite seemed like Fields did THAT well last year, or made it close enough to split the difference. 

bayareabadger

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Re: And the Badgers Shall Bring the Thunder - SOC 9/21
« Reply #258 on: September 24, 2019, 11:42:05 PM »
if a player goes down on the field and causes the clock to stop, he sits out the entire series.

If he's injured badly enough he can't get off the field under his own power he probably needs a few or more plays off.

if you want to play within the next couple of plays....... and your injury is to your shoulder or your arm, walk off the field, if your injury is to your right ankle or right thigh, hop off on your left leg
Is a series a drive? Or just a set of downs? 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: And the Badgers Shall Bring the Thunder - SOC 9/21
« Reply #259 on: September 24, 2019, 11:44:34 PM »
The play-calling for Fields at UGA wasn't a normal sample.  He had more rushing attempts than passing attempts.  They used him to run the ball and pass in garbage time.  And his passing numbers, while minimal, couldn't have been any better, really.


He wasn't given an opportunity to play his way to the starting role - UGA made its decision to not rock the boat.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

utee94

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Re: And the Badgers Shall Bring the Thunder - SOC 9/21
« Reply #260 on: September 25, 2019, 08:18:38 AM »
Is a series a drive? Or just a set of downs?
I'd say in this context a "series" would be an entire drive-- sit out until a change of possession. Which for a defender obviously means you sit out the remainder of your opponent's drive, plus your own offense's drive, and then you can come back.

I agree that if you're injured bad enough to stop the clock and have the trainer out on the field, then sitting out one play certainly isn't enough time for the medical staff to evaluate you properly.

Bu I doubt we'll ever see that happen.  And honestly, how can we expect the refs to monitor that?

bayareabadger

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Re: And the Badgers Shall Bring the Thunder - SOC 9/21
« Reply #261 on: September 25, 2019, 08:45:26 AM »
I'd say in this context a "series" would be an entire drive-- sit out until a change of possession. Which for a defender obviously means you sit out the remainder of your opponent's drive, plus your own offense's drive, and then you can come back.

I agree that if you're injured bad enough to stop the clock and have the trainer out on the field, then sitting out one play certainly isn't enough time for the medical staff to evaluate you properly.

Bu I doubt we'll ever see that happen.  And honestly, how can we expect the refs to monitor that?
Does it affect offense, or just defense? If it’s just defense, do teams cut block more because you can freak a guy out about his knee, and force a backup to play a crucial series? ( someone already mentioned this discouraged the use of trainers, right?)

The fallout seems high, and the payoff is HUNHs function slightly better?

MrNubbz

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Re: And the Badgers Shall Bring the Thunder - SOC 9/21
« Reply #262 on: September 25, 2019, 08:57:13 AM »
I'd say in this context a "series" would be an entire drive-- sit out until a change of possession. Which for a defender obviously means you sit out the remainder of your opponent's drive, plus your own offense's drive, and then you can come back.
for a shorthorn you're very insightful,I was gonna say something along those lines.If guys are really taking a dive and it appears they are in at least some instances there has to be a counter measure.A possesion/drive that's in the red zone might last a play then they're miraculously mended.With this implemented it will curb those tendencies somewhat.Of course they could always send a 3rd stringer out there to take a dive
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FearlessF

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Re: And the Badgers Shall Bring the Thunder - SOC 9/21
« Reply #263 on: September 25, 2019, 09:44:19 AM »
I'd say in this context a "series" would be an entire drive-- sit out until a change of possession. Which for a defender obviously means you sit out the remainder of your opponent's drive, plus your own offense's drive, and then you can come back.

I agree that if you're injured bad enough to stop the clock and have the trainer out on the field, then sitting out one play certainly isn't enough time for the medical staff to evaluate you properly.

Bu I doubt we'll ever see that happen.  And honestly, how can we expect the refs to monitor that?
Ed Zachery


Heck, the refs can't even monitor substitutions properly
but, this is why they have numbers on their jerseys
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

ELA

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Re: And the Badgers Shall Bring the Thunder - SOC 9/21
« Reply #264 on: September 25, 2019, 10:24:54 AM »
Kordell Stewart's hail mary over Michigan was 25 years ago today.  Jesus Christ.  I'm old.
Easily the most famous game I've ever attended.  Was thinking when I saw that, what 2nd would be?  I guess Clock-Gate in East Lansing?

utee94

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Re: And the Badgers Shall Bring the Thunder - SOC 9/21
« Reply #265 on: September 25, 2019, 10:39:50 AM »
Does it affect offense, or just defense? If it’s just defense, do teams cut block more because you can freak a guy out about his knee, and force a backup to play a crucial series? ( someone already mentioned this discouraged the use of trainers, right?)

The fallout seems high, and the payoff is HUNHs function slightly better?

I've already said I don't see it ever being implemented, for multiple reasons.  All we've done is name some obvious consequences, but I'd expect a multitude of potential unintended consequences.

With that said, watching your opponent's defense take 13 dives in a single game, demonstrates that ending such behavior would do more than just making the HUNH offense function "slightly" better.  That many flops completely disables the HUNH offense.  There's simply no way to run the HUNH when every single time the offense is trying to rush to the line to fire off a play while they perceive the defense is at a disadvantage, a defender flops to the ground, causing not only a disruption to the timing of the offense's attempts to run its game, but also allowing the defense an uncharged timeout and a substitution that otherwise would have been impossible.

Ultimately the only real consequence will be the end of the HUNH offense because it's incredibly easy to disrupt simply by flopping 13 times in a game, as long as there are no consequences for doing so.  Some might view that as ok, others might lament that such an unsportsmanlike tactic was allowed to kill an entire offensive philosophy.  I'll leave it to you, the reader, to decide. :)


 

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