header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...

 (Read 19449 times)

Riffraft

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 1097
  • Liked:
Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #168 on: December 27, 2017, 10:18:06 PM »
Gonna be 76 in LA today.
leaving the 70s of Phoenix in the morning for the single digits of Indiana and Ohio. Almost don't want to go see the kids and grand kids

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37525
  • Liked:
Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #169 on: December 27, 2017, 10:22:15 PM »
the kids and grandkids will still be there in a couple months when it warms up 
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18849
  • Liked:
Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #170 on: December 29, 2017, 07:27:32 PM »
Oregon.....

Ducks - 2010 lost to AU in NCG.  2012 team finished 2nd.  Both went 12-1.  Similar offensive and defensive numbers.  Hard to pick between them.  

2001 finsihed 2nd as well....Joey Harrington, two 1,000-yard rushers.

All 3 have great returners, only 2010 doesn't have garbage FG kicking.  Which would you pick if you had to pick one?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

ELA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20320
  • Liked:
Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #171 on: December 29, 2017, 08:00:23 PM »
I'd take 2012, Mariota factor.

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18849
  • Liked:
Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #172 on: December 29, 2017, 08:54:32 PM »
I was thinking that too, but....in 2010, Darron Thomas had the Heisman sewn up until he got hurt....

Plus 2012 was Mariota's least impressive year (all 3 were great).
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 08:59:43 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18849
  • Liked:
Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #173 on: January 19, 2018, 09:04:33 PM »
Did 2004 Iowa really go 10-2 with a leading rusher that had only 227 yds and worse, averaged 2.4 yards per carry? 

That's nuts.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71548
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #174 on: January 20, 2018, 08:31:07 AM »
The 1983 Texas team was one of the best I ever saw at least on defense.  They lost their bowl game on a bit of a fluke and thus lost the NC.  They probably were already mentioned.


FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37525
  • Liked:
Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #175 on: January 20, 2018, 09:42:00 AM »
2017 UCF Knights

undefeated, untied

Led the nation in offense

oops, they are national champs:

UCF declared itself national champion after a 13-0 season and Peach Bowl win and celebrated its achievements with a parade Sunday at Disney World.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18849
  • Liked:
Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #176 on: January 20, 2018, 11:46:18 AM »
Definitely not taking the time to make a 2017 UCF team card set, sorry.

I have made the QB card for these team seasons:
2013 South Carolina - Shaw
1977 Kentucky - Ramsey
2007 Missouri - Daniel
2012 Vandy - Rodgers
1977 Arkansas - Calcagni
2003 Ole Miss - Manning
2014 Miss State - Prescott
2012 A&M - Manziel
2011 Okie State - Weeden
1998 K-State - Bishop
2012 Tx Tech - Harrell
2011 Baylor - Griffin
2007 Kansas - Reesing
2000 Iowa State - Rosenfels
1988 WV - Harris
2010 TCU - Dalton
2013 Michigan State - Cook
2003 Minnesota - Abdul-Khaliq
1995 Northwestern - Schmur
1996 Arizona State - Plummer
1998 Arizona - Smith
2010 Oregon - Thomas
2010 Stanford - Luck
2004 Cal - Rodgers
1997 Washington State - Leaf
2013 Duke - Boone
1997 UNC - Davenport
1990 Virginia - Moore
1987 Syracuse - McPherson
1999 VT - Vick
2006 Louisville - Brohm
1976 Pitt - Cavanaugh
2002 NC State - Rivers
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18849
  • Liked:
Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #177 on: January 20, 2018, 11:50:41 AM »
Long-range goal is to make a card set for each P5's best season since the 70s.  So while I plan to eventually make all the Alabama and Nebaska NC teams, I want variety first and foremost.  

These aren't necessarily the best QB seasons or anything listed above, just who happened to be playing QB during that school's best season, results-wise.  Yes, there can be debates over which seasons those may be, but again, on a long-enough timeline, all team seasons could be produced.  
You could take some 3-8 team from the past and play a season with them to see if you could get them to a bowl or something.  The possibilities are vast.  You could make a schedule of the last 12 MSU teams and see how the 2017 version would fare against them.  Or you could do it tournament-style.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18849
  • Liked:
Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #178 on: January 20, 2018, 12:00:23 PM »
The last game trial I played was 1995 Florida @ 1985 Oklahoma.  Gators won, 31-7.  Some notes:

*It needs more possessions - 10 isn't enough - not enough total plays being run.  I'll go with 12 possessions next time.

*The defense cards need tweaking - when you play the "key on deep pass", it's too much of a penalty on a running play.  The OU defense was keying on pass mostly, which allowed UF to run really well.  
Conversely, UF keyed on OU's inside run, so the Sooners kept falling short of making first downs.  Part of it was the UF defense keying on it, part of it was the luck of the draw of the cards.  OU routinely would get 9 yards on a possession, but have to punt.
OU's passing stats were crap, even with UF keying on the run.  If they'd hit a few passes, the game would've been a lot closer, but the Sooners threw 2 INT and had a ton of incomplete passes.

Florida, itself, threw 2 INTs, but each completion seemed to go for an easy first down.  



So I need to change the defense cards from 'key on this, give up more on that' to more of a 'key on this, doesn't affect that much at all' type of thing.  And yes, there is a base defense option, in which you don't key on anything, specifically, and just accept the offensive play outcome.  

*I was unsure about how many plays had to be called before you could put used play cards back into your deck, but this game revealed an answer to that.  I was thinking 25 or so (out of the 40 play cards - 10 each of inside run, outside run, short pass, long pass), but since I didn't use 25 plays in either half for either team, it became obvious that I refill my play cards deck at halftime.  Even with additional possessions, this makes sense.  Very glad the fix revealed itself.

“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18849
  • Liked:
Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #179 on: January 20, 2018, 12:18:50 PM »
Some info about the game:

Pregame:
Each player has a deck of cards for their team season ('87 Miami, 05 Texas, etc).
Each deck is made up of:
1 QB card
1 Special teams card (kicker, punter, kick ret, punt ret)
7 defense cards (1 key on inside run, 1 key on outside run, 2 key on short pass, 2 key on long pass, 1 base defense)
40 offensive play cards (10 run inside, 10 run outside, 10 short pass, 10 long pass)

There's a 10 yard long down marker, a place to keep track of the down, a scorecard, and team color-specific token to move up and down the field on offense.
There is a return and punting chart to use for special teams - I have mine so it stands up and is visible to both players.




So the home team kicks off (or flip a coin if you wan).  
You look at your team's kick returner's average, then find it on the special teams chart.  You then roll a 6-sided die:
roll a 4:  return is his exact average
roll a 5 or 6:  return is longer than avg
roll a 3 or 2:  return is shorter than avg
roll a 1:  return is a touchback (or fair catch, if a punt)

Offense takes possession where return man is down.  
The offense picks which type of play it wants to run, but cannot see the play results on the card (one side says "long pass" and the data is on the other side.
The defense picks which play type it wants to key on and defend.  Again, this needs tweaking.

If the offense picks a run play, it just turns the card over as the defense flips its card.  The play result is the run card outcome (4 yard gain, etc) plus or minus the defensive card's influence (key on run will shorten the run, key on pass with lengthen the run).  THe offense moves it's token x-number of yards, move the other marker to 2nd down.

If the offense picks a pass play, there is an extra step.  Offense and defense flips their cards, then the offense must roll 2 die, both 10-sided, which creates a number from 0-99.  Looking at the QB card, the roll may mean a complete pass, incomplete pass, or interception.  The defense card may influence the completion %, interception %, or the yards gained.  

So on a pass, you'll know that the incompletion you just threw was to x-receiver and would've gained X-yards.  I like this, in that it's sort of like when watching a game, the QB's throw is in the air, and you see the potential gain if it's complete.  Same with this game as you roll the 10-sided dice.

So anyway, you keep doing this until you need to punt, kick a FG, turn it over, or score a TD.  A TD is scored anytime the play outcome crosses the goalline.  

Punting is the clumsiest aspect of the game, where the kicking team checks the chart and rolls the 6-sided die (just like a kick return), then sees how far the punt went. and shows it with the game token on the field.  Then the punt returning team does the same after checking their punt returner's average.  If you played a game with the same team a few times, this would become much faster, though.

If the punt goes into the end zone, it's a touchback.  If you roll a 1 as a returner, it's a fair catch.  Your FG kicker has a card where 30-39 yds, his success % equals his real-life %.  If it's a shorter kick, his % increases.  For longer kicks, it decreases.  The max FG attempt is 55 yds.  


*note about short passes and long passes - I take the QB's completion % and add 10 for short passes and subtract 10 for long passes.  That way, it doesn't make sense to spend all day throwing long passes.  
64% comp = 54% long pass, 74% short pass


« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 12:22:20 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25221
  • Liked:
Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #180 on: January 20, 2018, 12:24:07 PM »
That's a helluva effort you got going there 'Fro. Looks really interesting.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18849
  • Liked:
Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #181 on: January 20, 2018, 12:28:33 PM »
I enjoy the production of the cards, but the real next step is lugging it to a game store.  One of those places that has Dungeons & Dragons people playing on tables laid out for 6 hours at a time, and sitting there waiting for someone to want to play or playing it solitaire or whatever.

I need repetitions and no one I know would want to play it.  However, if this existed in a team shop or bookstore in Gainesville, Tuscaloosa, Auburn, or Baton Rouge, I'm 100% certain you couldn't keep it in stock.

I figure with the game field and parts, you'd get maybe 4 teams initially, so you could at least play a little playoff with them.  Maybe even get to pick your favorite team + 3 randoms (of the available teams listed).  Then you could buy individual teams or 4-packs of teams for additional money.

Cocktail napkin business plan right there.....
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.