Author
Topic: All Hail the Supreme Leader SOC 10/20/18
(Read 31537 times)

MrNubbz · « **Reply #420 on:** October 22, 2018, 02:14:26 PM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 22, 2018, 01:44:05 PM

Voters aren't any worse than any population. We, as humans, suck at putting things in the proper context. We're not good at valuing process. We're mentally lazy and like to look at one outcome, then go with it. The idea of thinking and taking several things into account doesn't appeal to us, at least in groups (a la a group of voters).

That's a generalization,people on this board delve deep into a variety of subjects depending on background.Collectively for the last 15 + yrs we could be considered a group.Look no further than the discussions/disagreements

bayareabadger · « **Reply #421 on:** October 22, 2018, 02:24:02 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 22, 2018, 08:23:20 AM

He made a valid counter point to your assertions,maybe someone else is uppity/snippy.He is right unless there were disciplinary/injury reasons.Why did a useful force of the offense not get the rock to late.Was he used to disguise or as a diversion that long?As Paul Brown once said if you have a big gun you shoot it.Dragging out stats from different seasons/programs/opposition doesn't pertain to that comment and proves nothing.I'm not saying Canada sux at all and for the most part would take a chance on him if Urbz left.Iowa clearly had the upper hand in talent against Maryland.So many X a coach can't do a lot i.e. Frost at UNL.With the right parts however there might be hell to pay.There have also been a lot of great asst coaches or coordinators that don't always translate to HC.Canada like Warriner sure has moved around the last 5-6 seasons.What's up with that?attitude or looking for opportunity?

So I'll answer this in three parts.
1. The last paragraph I'm referencing was the implication that because the collective board didn't put a guy getting less than 10 carries a game in strong consideration for all-conference means we don't think he's a good back. And because of that, our opinions on this other CFB topic are moot. Read into that what you will (I'm sorry I made this a thing. I assure you, I don't mean it as a slight)
2. I went over a bit why he didn't get the ball. Maryland had three real drives. It tried to get him the ball twice on the first one, but was undone. The second started with 1st and 15 and went handoff, jet sweep, bad pass. The third had a lot of jet sweeps, which who knows why?
In the end, you had 15 offensive plays that mattered. At the end of that, you'll always say, why didn't someone get more work (so you could've had more than 15 plays). Johnson might be the "big gun" as Paul Brown said, though three different offensive staffs apparently didn't think so, but he's not really the sort of back you just give the ball and say "beat that defense focused on you." Perhaps Iowa overloaded against him, and the offense attacked where the defense wasn't (badly).
3. I'm not even saying the guy is that good. If anything, I've argued he's been somewhat overrated. He's super creative, but he hasn't built great offenses consistently, just interesting ones. His third-best offense ever didn't even have QB play. This one is passing like an option team. And if it's your offense, you'd rather good than interesting. His career has been weird to say the least, and for the most part, he hasn't played well with others.
Shoot, I even ended it saying he won't be at Maryland next year (that whole scandal mess), so soon he'll be someone else's problem.

MrNubbz · « **Reply #422 on:** October 22, 2018, 02:25:43 PM »

Quote from: 847badgerfan on October 22, 2018, 02:01:09 PM

The beat guy from the Milwaukee paper used to have a vote and gave it up. He spends (not currently - out sick) 3+ hours in a press box and then locker room/presser coverage. Then he has to get stories done for Sunday's paper.

How the hell is he watching any other games? Answer? He wasn't.

So his saturday was stacked,good example.Dumb question when do the writers/coaches rankings come out?Sunday,Monday,Tuesday because Sun/Mon would be tough to oblige if the task was to be taken seriously

bayareabadger · « **Reply #423 on:** October 22, 2018, 02:34:14 PM »

Quote from: FearlessF on October 22, 2018, 10:24:27 AM

all Coaches are busy, I give them a break

but sportswriters? There are plenty of them out there. If they are too busy or uninterested to give their ballots more than a few minutes a week, they should decline the offer. Let some other sportswriter with more time and energy fill out a ballot

I would guess most of them are giving good effort, but it's not easy as we know.

I think they're giving good effort. But I think most are taught to approach it the old way, and frankly, when you sit down and try to pick them out, there's always some logical fallacy someone will be mad at. That and the fact when you rank teams no one is happy, it's not the easiest.
Plus there's a lot of them, and chances are, we'll zero in on the easiest to ridicule.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #424 on:** October 22, 2018, 02:37:16 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 22, 2018, 02:25:43 PM

So his saturday was stacked,good example.Dumb question when do the writers/coaches rankings come out?Sunday,Monday,Tuesday because Sun/Mon would be tough to oblige if the task was to be taken seriously

I think they're due at 11 on Sunday, maybe?
So if you have a noon game, you work a 9-plus-hour day and then have to digest all the happenings and carefully consider. If you have a 3:30 or later game, you get home between 10:30-11 or 2 a.m. and have to do all that, not to mention if you're on a road trip.
The simple answer is this, with the proliferation of available feeds, the vote should be shifted away from single-team beat writers. There are so many folks who are keeping an eye on the whole sport through the day. They should be getting the ballots.

MrNubbz · « **Reply #425 on:** October 22, 2018, 02:51:08 PM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 22, 2018, 02:24:02 PM

In the end, you had 15 offensive plays that mattered. At the end of that, you'll always say, why didn't someone get more work (so you could've had more than 15 plays).

Um,no you should question why one got no work(who mattered)and how do you spin it that only 15 plays mattered.Takes one play to bust a game open.The guy averages 7.8 yds on the season and had 4 carries for the Game.As IA Hawk15 said the term tossed around was Jr High offense by those there.Mterp was right,nuts perhaps but right.C'mon 3 qtrs in is over due no matter how you try to explain it away.Not saying it would have made any difference at all but barring injury or discipline you call his(Johnsons) number

MarqHusker · « **Reply #426 on:** October 22, 2018, 03:19:21 PM »

Sam (OWH) puts together an explanation for his AP ballot each week, some weeks its more in depth than others. He does seem to exhibit greater fluctuation than your average bear.

I know he tries to see what he can, but he's also got to watch Nebraska and do his game stories.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #427 on:** October 22, 2018, 03:26:40 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 22, 2018, 02:14:26 PM

That's a generalization,people on this board delve deep into a variety of subjects depending on background.Collectively for the last 15 + yrs we could be considered a group.Look no further than the discussions/disagreements

I don't think you're being objective.
Here's where we agree: if we ran an ongoing, week-by-week top 25 poll here for years and years, some individual's polls would be highly researched and show prudent variety from week to week. Of course!
But if we did that, the actual poll, taking everyone's inputs, week after week, year after year, would become sluggish and lazy, as a whole. I promise you. I don't know if it'd be as lazy as the image I posted here, but 'meh' nonetheless.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #428 on:** October 22, 2018, 03:27:37 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 22, 2018, 02:14:26 PM

That's a generalization,people on this board delve deep into a variety of subjects depending on background.Collectively for the last 15 + yrs we could be considered a group.Look no further than the discussions/disagreements

So I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest OAM was generalizing to politics, perhaps even in a "What's the matter with Kansas" sense. Where if you really dug into a person's core beliefs, you might find that their choice of "Team Red" or "Team Blue" really didn't make a lot of sense. Where they might say they want one thing but vote a different way based on their gut or tribal affiliation. Because at the end of the day, your vote really doesn't matter, so it's not really important enough to dig deep into the details. Known as rational ignorance.
Now, that's a different calculation than when an individual has to buy a car, or choose whether or not to take a job, or decide whether we want to relocate to a new city. In these cases, you have an enormous incentive to get the decision right, so it is worth careful consideration of all the relevant factors.
The AP and coaches' polls are more like the first. As long as you're not a significant outlier in the AP, nobody is going to even notice whether or not you voted. And I'm not sure, but isn't the coaches poll a secret ballot? And to honestly make the effort to watch a lot of games, for your ballot to be carefully constructed, is a LOT of work.
So what happens? The polls become a lot of groupthink. Team loses, you move them down and appropriate number of spots based on who they lost to. Team wins? You move them up beyond the teams that needed to be dropped for a loss, but you don't move them relative to other winning teams unless there's something absolutely newsworthy about their win.
At the end of the day, nobody penalizes you for a "bad" poll if your poll looks roughly like the others. And then we have a team like OSU, which was #2 but showing cracks in the armor, and they lose 49-20 to Purdue [and possibly rack up a few more losses] and we all lament about how the voters didn't know what they were doing but there are otherwise zero consequences.
As Tommy Lee Jones said in Men In Black, "An individual person is smart. People are dumb."

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #429 on:** October 22, 2018, 03:28:37 PM »

Quote from: MarqHusker on October 22, 2018, 03:19:21 PM

Sam (OWH) puts together an explanation for his AP ballot each week, some weeks its more in depth than others. He does seem to exhibit greater fluctuation than your average bear.

I know he tries to see what he can, but he's also got to watch Nebraska and do his game stories.

The lack of fluctuation within many voter's polls is simply due to the herd mentality. If I don't stand out, then I won't have to explain anything.
The fact that individual polls haven't always been released is insane imo. How are voter's expected to hold themselves accountable if no one holds them accountable?!?

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #430 on:** October 22, 2018, 03:30:11 PM »

Quote from: bwarbiany on October 22, 2018, 03:27:37 PM

As Tommy Lee Jones said in Men In Black, "An individual person is smart. People are dumb."

This.
You get 5 smart people in a room, they'll produce amazing ideas. You put 500 in a room, and things start to get wacky.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #431 on:** October 22, 2018, 04:15:30 PM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 22, 2018, 03:30:11 PM

This.
You get 5 smart people in a room, they'll produce amazing ideas. You put 500 in a room, and things start to get wacky.

That's called a Congress.
And that's never a productive thing.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #432 on:** October 22, 2018, 04:35:26 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 22, 2018, 02:51:08 PM

Um,no you should question why one got no work(who mattered)and how do you spin it that only 15 plays mattered.Takes one play to bust a game open.The guy averages 7.8 yds on the season and had 4 carries for the Game.As IA Hawk15 said the term tossed around was Jr High offense by those there.Mterp was right,nuts perhaps but right.C'mon 3 qtrs in is over due no matter how you try to explain it away.Not saying it would have made any difference at all but barring injury or discipline you call his(Johnsons) number

To a degree, I question why he didn’t get a handoff of those two drives. Maybe they shoulda run him into that good Iowa run defense. But if he gets four carries and one doesn’t break, we’re complaining they’re force-feeding SD back into the teeth of a defense gear to stop him.
I’m spinning the 15 plays thing Because Maryland ran 16 place in the first half and the last one came with 1 because Maryland ran 16 plays in the first half and the last one came with 8 seconds before halftime from Maryland’s 36, so it was not a functional play in terms of gaining yards/trying to score/not giving it to the RB. (One could actually say there were only 14 plays where Johnson could get the ball in useful position because of that bad snap)
As you say, It only takes one play, and coming out of halftime, Maryland threw the ball to Johnson twice on the first two plays. He got 2 yards and they went three and out.
You mention The JV high school offense comment. I don’t have a context for what that means. Does it mean person saying it can describe to me what are JV high school offense looks like, and then can explain to me why Maryland‘s resembles it? Or does it mean that Maryland’s offense was A. Bad and B.Looks weird? If it’s the second, they box score and knowing what his offense look like fill in a lot of those blanks.
So let’s sum this up, do I think Johnson shoulda got the ball more? Sure. I understand some reasons he wasn’t gonna get a lot of touches in the first half given how it played out. It’s a part of the context of Maryland’s offensive failures, which are multifaceted, and the story of Matt Canada, which is also long and weird.
(Are we splitting a small hair and more going back and forth than arguing? I think we are)

bayareabadger · « **Reply #433 on:** October 22, 2018, 04:41:42 PM »

Quote from: bwarbiany on October 22, 2018, 03:27:37 PM

So I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest OAM was generalizing to politics, perhaps even in a "What's the matter with Kansas" sense. Where if you really dug into a person's core beliefs, you might find that their choice of "Team Red" or "Team Blue" really didn't make a lot of sense. Where they might say they want one thing but vote a different way based on their gut or tribal affiliation. Because at the end of the day, your vote really doesn't matter, so it's not really important enough to dig deep into the details. Known as rational ignorance.
Now, that's a different calculation than when an individual has to buy a car, or choose whether or not to take a job, or decide whether we want to relocate to a new city. In these cases, you have an enormous incentive to get the decision right, so it is worth careful consideration of all the relevant factors.
The AP and coaches' polls are more like the first. As long as you're not a significant outlier in the AP, nobody is going to even notice whether or not you voted. And I'm not sure, but isn't the coaches poll a secret ballot? And to honestly make the effort to watch a lot of games, for your ballot to be carefully constructed, is a LOT of work.
So what happens? The polls become a lot of groupthink. Team loses, you move them down and appropriate number of spots based on who they lost to. Team wins? You move them up beyond the teams that needed to be dropped for a loss, but you don't move them relative to other winning teams unless there's something absolutely newsworthy about their win.
At the end of the day, nobody penalizes you for a "bad" poll if your poll looks roughly like the others. And then we have a team like OSU, which was #2 but showing cracks in the armor, and they lose 49-20 to Purdue [and possibly rack up a few more losses] and we all lament about how the voters didn't know what they were doing but there are otherwise zero consequences.
As Tommy Lee Jones said in Men In Black, "An individual person is smart. People are dumb."

If I may add a slight detail here. We’re complaining about polls. People have been taught for a long time that polls work like a horse race. Win gets a bump. Lose and fall. Move up by not losing.
No one tells these folks to do anything different, and a lot of the older ones think that’s the way it works because that’s the way it has worked. Young writers might change that, but if you’re likely to build rankings with care, you’re more likely to feel the excercise is kinda silly to start with.

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.

Topic: All Hail the Supreme Leader SOC 10/20/18

MrNubbz

Re: All Hail the Supreme Leader SOC 10/20/18

bayareabadger

Re: All Hail the Supreme Leader SOC 10/20/18

MrNubbz

Re: All Hail the Supreme Leader SOC 10/20/18

bayareabadger

Re: All Hail the Supreme Leader SOC 10/20/18

bayareabadger

Re: All Hail the Supreme Leader SOC 10/20/18

MrNubbz

Re: All Hail the Supreme Leader SOC 10/20/18

MarqHusker

Re: All Hail the Supreme Leader SOC 10/20/18

OrangeAfroMan

Re: All Hail the Supreme Leader SOC 10/20/18

betarhoalphadelta

Re: All Hail the Supreme Leader SOC 10/20/18

OrangeAfroMan

Re: All Hail the Supreme Leader SOC 10/20/18

OrangeAfroMan

Re: All Hail the Supreme Leader SOC 10/20/18

betarhoalphadelta

Re: All Hail the Supreme Leader SOC 10/20/18

bayareabadger

Re: All Hail the Supreme Leader SOC 10/20/18

bayareabadger

Re: All Hail the Supreme Leader SOC 10/20/18