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Topic: All-Decade Team: 1990s

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ManHawk

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Re: All-Decade Team: 1990s
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2025, 10:28:17 AM »
Quote from: FearlessF on October 11, 2025, 08:57:41 AM
super bowl TDs count!
Well, I kinda look at it as one potential tiebreaker when college stats are roughly equal. 

Kinda like college games use 2 point conversions to determine a winner after being tied after 60 minutes of regulation and 2 overtimes.  You gotta figure out some way to break the tie.
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FearlessF

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Re: All-Decade Team: 1990s
« Reply #43 on: October 11, 2025, 10:29:07 AM »
why not high school stats?
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Decade Team: 1990s
« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2025, 10:29:23 AM »
This team had me at...

QB -Tommie Frazier,  Nebraska
RB - Ricky Williams, Texas
RB - Ron Dayne, Wisconsin
WR -
WR -
TE -
T - Orlando Pace, Ohio State
T -
G -Will Shields, Nebraska
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Decade Team: 1990s
« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2025, 10:30:22 AM »
I prefer to rank/rate college players as if they all die in a plane crash the day after their last college game.
What?
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Decade Team: 1990s
« Reply #46 on: October 11, 2025, 10:30:58 AM »
Quote from: FearlessF on October 11, 2025, 10:29:07 AM
why not high school stats?
That's called G5 player stats...
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FearlessF

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Re: All-Decade Team: 1990s
« Reply #47 on: October 11, 2025, 10:34:22 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 11, 2025, 10:30:22 AM
I prefer to rank/rate college players as if they all die in a plane crash the day after their last college game.
What?
Brook Berringer wins that one in the 90s

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847badgerfan

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Re: All-Decade Team: 1990s
« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2025, 10:47:47 AM »
My last one.

QB -Tommie Frazier,  Nebraska
QB -
RB - Ricky Williams, Texas
RB - Ron Dayne, Wisconsin
WR - Randy Moss, Marshall
WR - Desmond Howard, UM
TE - Pete Mitchell, BC
T - Orlando Pace, Ohio State
T - Matt Light, Purdue
G -Will Shields, Nebraska
G -
C - Corey Raymer, Wisconsin
.
DE - Tom Burke, Wisconsin
DE -
DT - John Henderson, Tenn
DT - Jared DeVries, Iowa
LB - Dat Nguyen, Texas A&M
LB - LaVar Arrington, Penn St
LB -
CB - Charles Woodson, UM
CB - Champ Bailey, UGA
S -
S -
.
K - Carlos Huerta, Miami
P - Brad Maynard, Ball St
RET - Tim Dwight, Iowa
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847badgerfan

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Re: All-Decade Team: 1990s
« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2025, 10:49:13 AM »
Burke:

21 sacks and 34 TFL's, on the way to

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Decade Team: 1990s
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2025, 10:52:20 AM »
He was great.  He was big, but didn't look the part, wearing #74 I think.  But the game starts and you're like "they should try blocking that guy!"

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: All-Decade Team: 1990s
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2025, 10:53:23 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 11, 2025, 10:30:22 AM
I prefer to rank/rate college players as if they all die in a plane crash the day after their last college game.
What?
You're not wrong. And I know this is one of your pet peeves, that often people overweight more pedestrian careers of college players because they were NFL stars. 

But it's sometimes difficult to rate players because there isn't enough parity in college football. As one of the memes said, sometimes in college football you can see a 1v1 matchup between a future NFL pro bowler and a future... accountant. It can sometimes make players statistically look much better than they are--like you point out with players against G5 competition.

I'll give you an example... Curtis Painter. Statistically, he was a VERY good QB. He bested a number of Brees' records at Purdue, and obviously this was a Big Ten team, so it's not like he was playing against G5/HS teams. Now, as a Purdue fan I can tell you from watching closely that he feasted on the weaker opponents and faded against the better ones; OTOH, Drew showed up against top competition. But as an outsider, you could use Brees' pro success as validation that his college success was evidence of his talent, and that Painter's NFL journeyman backup career as evidence that maybe he shouldn't even be in consideration for a list like this... 

That's why I brought up Matt Light's NFL career. Not to say that he should be getting college credit for his time in the NFL, but more as a defense against the question of: "How good or important was he, really? Purdue averaged 8 wins a season during his 3 years as the starter?"

The defense would be that as a Purdue fan, we saw how important he was and hold him in a high regard. He was a key enabler in everything Brees' did. But additional evidence is the fact that he spent 11 years doing it at the highest level, made multiple pro bowls and had an all-pro season, on a team that won three Super Bowls during that time, and was trusted with protecting Brady's blind side. The NFL success doesn't get credited to his college performance, but it's corroborating evidence that he truly was as good as he looked in college. 

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Decade Team: 1990s
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2025, 10:56:04 AM »
2nd QB ideas......Wuerffel, Ward, lil Joe Hamilton....idk, Manning was no Wuerffel and Brees wasn't actually that good, just had astronomical volume (ducks for cover).  
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: All-Decade Team: 1990s
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2025, 10:59:12 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on October 11, 2025, 10:56:04 AM
2nd QB ideas......Wuerffel, Ward, lil Joe Hamilton....idk, Manning was no Wuerffel and Brees wasn't actually that good, just had astronomical volume (ducks for cover). 

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Decade Team: 1990s
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2025, 11:01:25 AM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 11, 2025, 10:53:23 AM
You're not wrong. And I know this is one of your pet peeves, that often people overweight more pedestrian careers of college players because they were NFL stars.

But it's sometimes difficult to rate players because there isn't enough parity in college football. As one of the memes said, sometimes in college football you can see a 1v1 matchup between a future NFL pro bowler and a future... accountant. It can sometimes make players statistically look much better than they are--like you point out with players against G5 competition.

I'll give you an example... Curtis Painter. Statistically, he was a VERY good QB. He bested a number of Brees' records at Purdue, and obviously this was a Big Ten team, so it's not like he was playing against G5/HS teams. Now, as a Purdue fan I can tell you from watching closely that he feasted on the weaker opponents and faded against the better ones; OTOH, Drew showed up against top competition. But as an outsider, you could use Brees' pro success as validation that his college success was evidence of his talent, and that Painter's NFL journeyman backup career as evidence that maybe he shouldn't even be in consideration for a list like this...

That's why I brought up Matt Light's NFL career. Not to say that he should be getting college credit for his time in the NFL, but more as a defense against the question of: "How good or important was he, really? Purdue averaged 8 wins a season during his 3 years as the starter?"

The defense would be that as a Purdue fan, we saw how important he was and hold him in a high regard. He was a key enabler in everything Brees' did. But additional evidence is the fact that he spent 11 years doing it at the highest level, made multiple pro bowls and had an all-pro season, on a team that won three Super Bowls during that time, and was trusted with protecting Brady's blind side. The NFL success doesn't get credited to his college performance, but it's corroborating evidence that he truly was as good as he looked in college.
I guess I just don't care how "good" a player is, just what he does on the field.  And you take that view of Painter vs Brees, and PU fans will know that and make it known to others.  That's part of the context that matters and is college-only.

I'm sure Light was great, and again, this is a low-stakes exercise.  I'm not going to sit here (and we've all done a really good job of not doing this) and whine that you put Light in over a guy like Johnathan Ogden.  He had a great NFL career, too, but even just in college, dude was probably the best lineman in his conference the moment he walked onto the field for the first time.  But everyone knows Ogden and it's a layup, so we get Matt Light on our team and learn a little about a more unfamiliar player.

That's what makes this great.  I'm thankful for it.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Decade Team: 1990s
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2025, 11:12:43 AM »
Brees is a great case to study when it comes to context, expectations, history, and volume.
Was he more productive than anyone Purdue (and much of the Big Ten) ever seen?  Sure.  And that includes some relatively big-passers from the past - Greise.....Hermann.....Phipps!  

Brees averaged 300+ yds per game for 3 years.  That's crazy!  

But 2 things:  too many INTs.  Not WAY too many, but too many (partially due to the high volume of attempts) AND a very low yards-per-attempt.  Now I assume this is due to Tiller's system and that is what it is, but that combined with the INTs yields a very pedestrian pass rating.  Like below-average for "name" QBs.  

But the team!  The team!  The team!  
Yes, Purdue hadn't had a winning season since 1985.  BUT their jump to success and a 30+ point offense came the season before Brees was the starter.  And along with that bigger offense was the best ppg defense they'd had since 1981.  So with a better defense AND a big-passing offense, PU found success under Tiller they hadn't experienced in a very long time.  But Tiller sustained the .500+ records after Brees left.  
All that being said, Brees was better than the first QB beneficiary who started in 1997.  He was novel in his volume of attempts.  But I can't say he was great in any other way.

*Fun fact, even PU guys might have forgotten:  Brees rushed for 546 yards his SR season, which is nuts!
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier
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